Help me get this straight once and for all, please...

[V-man]

Randy's Concorde has been thrown around way too liberally over the years, and now I would like to get this straight.

Story 1: Randy began working with Grover on his own guitar, cobbling the design on a cocktail napkin. The sleek design reminded him of the supersonic aircraft he had the opportunity to ride, which became the moniker of his first guitar, the "Concorde". This design was not approved by Rhoads as a production model, and the controlls were re-allocated with neck/body becoming streamlined into the black stringthrough model, Named: (?) that became the approved design of the Jackson Rhoads line.

Story 2: Story 1: Randy began working with Grover on his own guitar, cobbling the design on a cocktail napkin. This guitar earned the name, "Original Sin", as his first creation. The "Original Sin" design was not approved by Rhoads as a production model however, and the controlls were re-allocated with neck/body becoming streamlined into the black stringthrough model. The sleek re-design reminded him of the supersonic aircraft he had the opportunity to ride, which became the moniker of his "improved" guitar, the "Concorde" and is the approved design that production Rhoads models are based upon.


Details not withstanding (feel free to add/make corrections), which of the stories is true? Is the White "O.S." and the black the "Concorde" or is the white the "Concorde" and the black un-named?

[blues_n_cues]

story 1 is true -@ least according to the people that were there & in Rudy's book.

the black guitar was designed because too many people mistook the white one for a regular flying v & because the upper frets were too hard to reach.

[V-man]

Hey, Blues... Good to see you on over here!

The upper fret access is a definite given... the "concorde" is inhibited from the 15th or so down, whereas the "black one" is clear down to the 19th. I imagine the pup switch was another inconvenience being top mounted, and prone to being knocked out of the bridge position while playing as well.

Thanks for the info!

Stuff like this: http://home.flash.net/~ulknatme/guitars.htm has made things clear as mud to me over the years

[whoopiecat]

I suppose you'd have to ask Grover himself, but I don't recall ever reading the black jack being referred to as "The Original Sin". That body shape went on into production simply as the "RR".
Even in a recent NAMM interview with Grover, he doesn't refer to either as "Original Sin" or "Concorde".
In the new millenium, Jackson ads began popping up featuring a b&w pic of Randy on the Diary stage with the white pinstripe, looking towards center stage, beneath the pic was the term "Original Sin". That is where I first remember seeing it.
Maybe that term was used instead, as uning the term "Concorde" could bring unwanted legal/copyright attention from the airline/manufacturer.
If you reference the hand written setlist from the Diary tour that was reproduced in the booklet that came with the reissue Marshall did a few years ago, Randy referred to the white one as a "Charvel" and the Black as "New One".
Frank Santa Cruz did agree that the writing in the left hand column of the setlist was indeed Randy's.
It is unfortunate that Randy didn't live to see this guitar go into production. He never got a chance to truly name it. The body remains a popular style after three decades and the headstock would define the Jackson name.
I guess it comes down to personal preference. To me, they're the pinstripe and the black jack.


~T.

[blues_n_cues]

after talking to kevin kyle earlier,grover,and a few others in the know,i remember it
straight now.
the pinstripe was called "prototype" the black one was the concorde. i don't remember if Randy actually intended to have the guitar marketed but after his death it is what it is.
a dude -shaun michael klegg actuall has the white one named #3 that was accidentaly sold @ the namm show.

[sytharnia]

after talking to kevin kyle earlier,grover,and a few others in the know,i remember it
straight now.
the pinstripe was called "prototype" the black one was the concorde. i don't remember if Randy actually intended to have the guitar marketed but after his death it is what it is.
a dude -shaun michael klegg actuall has the white one named #3 that was accidentaly sold @ the namm show.

that's what I have read as well....the black one was concorde. I will try and hunt out the grover interview

[roballyn]

The White prototype was the original design and one of the early guitars Grover built for Charvel. It had the distinction of being one of, if not the first neck through guitars to come from Charvel, which is why they went with the Jackson name. To distinguish the bolt-ons from the neck through. Suposedly, the black one(Randy's),Another black one(grover), and the white one(NAMM) were secondary prototypes. It's been said that Vinnie Vincent actually had production model serial number #RR003(originally woodgrain later painted hot pink). He was rumored to be auctioning off at a KISS convention in Europe, but backed out at the last minute. Make note of the gold Jackson "signature" on the headstock on the protos vs. the white Jackson "logo" on the production models. Also the size of the Shark tooth inlays are a giveaway. I've owned several USA Charvels and Jacksons, but i ended up being a drummer, so after all these years my guitar knowledge is getting a little fuzzy. Somewhere, I've still got a Charvel warranty card from an early Rhoads.

[whoopiecat]

Thanks for that info, roballyn...I knew VV had to have one of the first. I know pink became a trademark color for him, but the gold flake looked pretty cool:

[roballyn]

Thanx for that pic whoopiecat. I forgot, the guitar was gold not wood grain. and notice the gold logo/signature! I've been so caught up in 30th anniversay fever that the details of Vinnie's guitars have escaped me. I still have loads of old Circus magazines with pics of the pink one. To my knowledge, it's the same guitar. But none the less, one of the earliest. Also, note the larger inlays and larger gold logo on Vinnie's, as well as the "sissy" version Floyd Rose(no fine tuners) and of course the one EMG, one passive pick-up set he was running. I doubt the neck PU was even wired up at that point.

[whoopiecat]

You're welcome, and yeah, that does look like a hand-painted logo. I like the look of the black hardware on the gold paintjob as well. I bet it's the same axe, by the time he had his own band going, everyone was going with a day-glo paint scheme.
I guess he would be the first to have one of these models, followed by Chris Holmes, Doug Marks, Hammett, Mustaine and many more.

~T.

[RhoadsRockPhotographer]

It's been said that Vinnie Vincent actually had production model serial number #RR003(originally woodgrain later painted hot pink). He was rumored to be auctioning off at a KISS convention in Europe, but backed out at the last minute.

If it was in Vincent "Vinnie Vincent" Cusano's possession, it was more likely a counterfeit than genuine.

That guy has ripped off THOUSANDS of people, over the years.

[sytharnia]

It's been said that Vinnie Vincent actually had production model serial number #RR003(originally woodgrain later painted hot pink). He was rumored to be auctioning off at a KISS convention in Europe, but backed out at the last minute.

If it was in Vincent "Vinnie Vincent" Cusano's possession, it was more likely a counterfeit than genuine.

That guy has ripped off THOUSANDS of people, over the years.

not at all, grover has stated vinnie having one.....


Kirk has said his is number 5

[roballyn]

Chris Holmes actually has(or had) 2, a zebra striped and a black one with white bevelling. Last I talked to him(it's been some years back), i think the striped one was stolen, and he still has the black one, although it's been painted(not professionaly). If you ever see pics of his, the upper wing appears shorter, more like Randy's original prototype. As for Vinnie's being fake, it's not, although there are some pics on ebay right now from that convention, with him holding the guitar that was to be auctioned. Not the original, it has a pink headstock with a black production logo and the front PU removed. And yes, Photographer, he did skip town with said guitar after running up a HUGE roomservice bill, as well as the money for the guitar. I know the guy who used to put on some of the conventions before Gene copyrighted them. Vinnie also had a black Randy Rhoads during the Lick it Up tour that had dot inlays but a gold "signature" logo. I've only seen a few pictures of that one.

[sytharnia]

Chris Holmes actually has(or had) 2, a zebra striped and a black one with white bevelling. Last I talked to him(it's been some years back), i think the striped one was stolen, and he still has the black one, although it's been painted(not professionaly). If you ever see pics of his, the upper wing appears shorter, more like Randy's original prototype

the story behind the zebra one is it use to be white with black bevels, but it got damaged on tour or something and jackson repaired it (cut the wing shorter) and chris decided on the zebra paint job. I don't think it was ever stolen and the guy who runs this site owns it.. http://www.jacksonguitarpalace.com/chrisholmes/

There is some pic's of the guitar before the damage and also heaps of info about all of chris's guitars

[whoopiecat]

Thanks for that link, Synth. Boy, those guitars certainly saw some use over the years...Randy said that he considered the guitar to be a tool, but Chris took that to the next level.
It looks like Chris wound up selling the Zebra stripe on ebay to a collector in Finland in '03:

http://www.jacksonguitarpalace.com/chri ... siness.htm

I noticed in the red link 'First WASP Tour' on the page for the Black One, it shows a screenshot of Chris using a Brass on Black, (like Randy's), in the movie "Dungeonmaster", in which the band made an appearance:

http://www.jacksonguitarpalace.com/chri ... ackrr1.htm