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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:38 am 
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ROCKYRHOADS VERY VERY GOOD TO SEE YOU MY FRIEND!!!! PLEASE STICK AROUND!!! I WILL P.M. YOU LATER............P

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The saying, "words can not describe" are so true when it comes to Randy Rhoads.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:20 pm 
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It has been reported for years that the direction Quiet Riot took musically - especially at the time the first two records were recorded - was dictated by QR's management. They thought the glam/pop route was the best avenue for Quiet Riot and, since they were paying the bills, the boys did as they were told. The result was the poppy stuff we all have heard.

Pretty much True. But Kevin had input regarding arrangements, and on-stage persona - both of which effected the overall sound. Before Kevin was around, Randy and Kelly were playing Alice Cooper type stuff, wherehas Kevin was a huge Humble Pie fan - Kevin's influences and style were more pop than you may think.

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that Delores was the sparkplug behind Randy joining Ozzy's band.

Could be...Delores just wanted Randy to grow beyond the local club scene, she basically wanted his artistic ability evolve beyond QR - it seems that the Ozzy opportunity came a knockin' at a pivitol point in Randy's career. Not so sure Ozzy would have come back as strong without Randy's input.

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Randy's playing in his practice time circa '78 and '79 was probably very much like what we hear with Ozzy. It just didn't fit Quiet Riot. So the "big change" is just the public version of his playing.

Not sure I totally agree with that assessment. Randy was always trying out new things when he played live, and in 1979 his main "competition" was EVH - I think Randy sounded closer to Ozzy in '79 than the rest of QR did, which limited Randy's ability to effect the overall sound. This would also explain the "harder edge" that appeared in the late-QR/pre-Ozzy days.

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He played guitar because he loved guitar, he had already tasted fame and would very likely have chosen to settle into a more ordinary life.

Not so sure about that. Randy played the "Rock Star" long before he joined Ozzy. I do think the Ozzy gig overwhelmed him a bit at the time, but I think he would have eventually adjusted/matured and, as I stated earlier, probably would have created a music "project" that continuously evolved throughout his career. Many musicians were doing this in the 70's and 80's and it would have given Randy complete control over everything regarding the music - which is what he wanted. I agree that he would not have toured relentlessly as he did with Ozzy, but I do not think he would have returned to an "ordinary" life, of course, that depends on your definition of "ordinary."

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I believe Randy would have taken the ingredients that Mozart or Beethoven used and created his own stuff. He understood the concept of how classical pieces were built and used those concepts to build his own pieces.

Completely agree, and Randy has said something along these lines.

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The last thing I'd like to say is that if he'd lived, I don't think any of these message boards would exist. I don't think Randy Rhoads would be the "name" he is now. I think he would have faded into obscurity - "that guy who played on Ozzy's first two records". A lot of bands came and went over the last 40 years with fabulous musicians in them. A lot of those musicians are still around but we never think about them or talk about them, regardless of whether or not we still listen to their music. For example, when's the last time you read an article about Rick Nielsen?

Absolutely disagree. I find it pretty incredible that you would compare Randy to Rick Nielson of Cheap Trick. The thing about Randy is that NO OTHER PLAYER at the time was approaching the instrument as he did - this would have continued to evolve, improving with age. People still speak of Hendrix, Clapton, Beck, Page, and even EVH!!! I believe Randy would have ended up better than all of these great players - He was THAT GOOD - of course, we'll never know for sure.
Regarding the internet forums, etc., that revolve around Randy, and the suggestion they would "not exist" had he lived...one word = Buckethead.

Rocky, please do take offense to me addressing your post in particular, I certainly meant nothin personal. Peace.

RM


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:02 pm 
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I knew someone would get upset about the comparison between Randy and Rick Nielsen... Randy fans are so easily offended, especially when comparisons are made.

For the record, I do not subscribe to the "Randy is God" school of thought. He was great and unique in many ways. Rick Nielsen is also great and unique in many ways. I am willing to bet that Rick Nielsen could blow most (if not all) of the members of this site out of the water when it comes to playing guitar.

Randy Magic wrote:
The thing about Randy is that NO OTHER PLAYER at the time was approaching the instrument as he did - this would have continued to evolve, improving with age. People still speak of Hendrix, Clapton, Beck, Page, and even EVH!!!


And everyone you mentioned has more than 2 records out. Randy may or may not have released any more records. My point was that, had he not released any more records he would have faded and sites like this probably wouldn't exist. It had nothing to do with Randy's ability, it had to do with the fickle public.

EVH was THE most influential guitar player of the last 25 years, bar none. He grew and matured as a player and didn't continue to rehash Eruption over and over, and what do people say about him now? "He's a hack, he was never that good," etc... Randy never had the opportunity to release a less than popular record - regardless of the talent on that record. As a result, he is put on a pedestal...

The whole "we'll never know" is very true... what if Randy had kids and decided it was more important to stay home and be a dad and not be a "rock star" any more? No one knows, because he died young, so my opinions and thoughts are as valid as anyone elses.

Everything is my opinion based on being a fan, reading articles and interviews and listening to the music since 1981. I did not personally know Randy and never got to see QR live with him, so it's all conjecture.

No worries RM, you did not offend me, I am just restating my original point... everyone is entitiled to their own opinions!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:00 pm 
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I knew someone would get upset about the comparison between Randy and Rick Nielsen... Randy fans are so easily offended, especially when comparisons are made....For the record, I do not subscribe to the "Randy is God" school of thought.


I was hardly offended, more than I thought it was just a bad comparison. I do not subscribe to the "Randy is God" school either, but, he was a friend and his potential at the time of his death was endless, and I think you are underestimating this, IMHO.

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EVH was THE most influential guitar player of the last 25 years, bar none. He grew and matured as a player and didn't continue to rehash Eruption over and over,


EVH was influential simply because he was a flashy player, and had a distinct style that people liked, and Randy mastered. The MOST influential in 25 years - maybe to teenybopper guitarists, and other newer players. I think seasoned guitarists would say otherwise. And, those influenced by EVH - where are they now? I know more Randy-influenced seasoned musicians than I do EVH-influenced seasoned musicians. But that's me.

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so my opinions and thoughts are as valid as anyone elses.


Never said they were not, but, one can disagree - as you stated. I'm glad we can have these discussions because it Randy was human, not a God, and his legacy should be debated by those that love him.

I do not feel Randy is placed on a pedestal for most fans, however, I do agree that there are some out there that want to be Randy, and who think he's God, but, c'mon, those guys are whacked wanna be's anyway.

I think your position that Randy was "just another guitarist" is only valid in a vacuum - where the future is unknown, and you compare his likely progression with others that lived to fulfill theirs, ala EVH. EVH is a drunk, and a drug addict - what could he have accomplished without the drugs? Not sure. Randy was just a different kind of musician and guitarist for his time - which is what made him unique, IMHO.

Good debate, mate. I like your style!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:04 pm 
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One last point...

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And everyone you mentioned has more than 2 records out.


And, so did Ted Greene have only two albums out. But, it would be hard to find a seasoned guitarist that had never heard of him...And, while Ted stopped recording because he had bad stage fright, Randy loved the spotlight much of the time - who knows how that would have evolved...


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:17 pm 
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Randy Magic wrote:
One last point...

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And everyone you mentioned has more than 2 records out.


And, so did Ted Greene have only two albums out. But, it would be hard to find a seasoned guitarist that had never heard of him...And, while Ted stopped recording because he had bad stage fright, Randy loved the spotlight much of the time - who knows how that would have evolved...


Great points made here guys and enjoyed reading all that you both had to say.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:13 pm 
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Randy Magic wrote:
EVH was influential simply because he was a flashy player, and had a distinct style that people liked, and Randy mastered. The MOST influential in 25 years - maybe to teenybopper guitarists, and other newer players. I think seasoned guitarists would say otherwise. And, those influenced by EVH - where are they now? I know more Randy-influenced seasoned musicians than I do EVH-influenced seasoned musicians. But that's me.


Why does everybody say this stuff? Eddie Van Halen was "all flash"? He influenced EVERY rock and metal player from 1978 on. Steve Vai? Picked up new ideas from Ed. Satriani? Picked up ideas from Ed. Randy Rhoads? Blatantly stole ideas from Ed and admitted it!

EVH did things no one had done at a level no one had done them at previously. He raised the bar.

Randy was phenomenal, don't get me wrong. Before Randy, no one talked about modes and classical composers. After Randy everyone talks modes. Randy raised the bar on musicianship, without a doubt. He was a musician, Ed is a guitar player. Both belong in the greatness category.

Ed revolutionized guitar playing. Randy brought an educated mind to that revolution and furthered it.

Would John Sykes suit the comparison better? He was in Whitesnake and his playing made them huge. He left that band and faded from the public eye. Now he still plays, but doesn't get much attention in the guitar community.

The fact of the matter is, this thread was about Randy's full potential and morphed into what he'd be doing had he lived. I simply believe he would have left the public eye and faded in the minds of the public. Some would remember him, some would not.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:18 pm 
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Stole? Did he claim the ideas as his own?

I know he used tapping, and was pretty good at it, but I don't think he stole it. Just used it. Also they both seemed to like the whole whammy bar thing :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2006 7:22 pm 
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Supernaut wrote:
Stole? Did he claim the ideas as his own?

I know he used tapping, and was pretty good at it, but I don't think he stole it. Just used it. Also they both seemed to like the whole whammy bar thing :wink:


Well, I guess it depends on your point of view... copied, stole, used... maybe I should have said, "baltantly copied" Ed.

I think Randy specifically avoided the Floyd Rose so as not to further the EVH comparison. Jake decided to forego the whammy entirely because it got out of hand with all the copycats...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 7:10 pm 
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Randy Magic wrote:
Randy's biggest local competition was EVH, but everyone knew that Eddie was a flashy rockstar whereas Randy was a True Musician that played a "Rock Star." Big difference.

To me Randy was as flashy as Eddie. Both were true musicians. Ok Ed used the tremelo bar a bit more than Randy, is that more flashy? Not sure. Eddie had a more spontaneous approach to solos, whereas Randy's were more worked out. Eddie had classical infuences in his playing as well but he didn't build on it like Randy did. Listen to Ed's solo spot around '82/'83. Listen to "On fire" of the first VH record. In that solo you hear the same runs Randy used in Believer, Mr. Crowley and his solospot. You can even hear where Randy's Steal Away riff came from.
I like Randy a lot, but I can't help to hear that Randy was a lot more influenced by Eddie than vica versa. (sorry :oops: )
And honestly Randy never created the earth shock in guitarplaying like Eddie did. (and Ed only needed one album for that :wink: ) I think Eddie is the most influential hardrock guitarplayer ever! 8)

But I love them both! :D

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:16 pm 
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Randy Magic wrote:
And, those influenced by EVH - where are they now?


Let's see ... uumm ...

Zakk Wylde
is still going strong,
so is Akira Takasaki ...
sad though that Dimebag is dead.

Get the picture ? ;)


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:02 am 
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Stiltzkin wrote:
Randy Magic wrote:
And, those influenced by EVH - where are they now?


Let's see ... uumm ...

Zakk Wylde
is still going strong,
so is Akira Takasaki ...
sad though that Dimebag is dead.

Get the picture ? ;)

+ Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, George Lynch, Tony McAlpine etc.

Ed's influences are there in almost every hardrock/metal player who came after him, directly or indirectly.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:17 am 
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Flying Dutchman wrote:
Stiltzkin wrote:
Randy Magic wrote:
And, those influenced by EVH - where are they now?


Let's see ... uumm ...

Zakk Wylde
is still going strong,
so is Akira Takasaki ...
sad though that Dimebag is dead.

Get the picture ? ;)

+ Steve Vai, Joe Satriani, George Lynch, Tony McAlpine etc.

Ed's influences are there in almost every hardrock/metal player who came after him, directly or indirectly.


I didn't know Lynch was influenced by Van Halen :?
But it's true though about most modern metal players
having alot of Ed in them. Alot of the deathmetal bands
I listen to(thinking about Vader) has adopted his
whammy-bar antics ...


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:49 am 
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Stiltzkin wrote:
I didn't know Lynch was influenced by Van Halen :?

George own words: "Eddie was the King and Randy was close second."

btw. during the John Stix interview Randy said he used a lot ot the same licks like Ed did and that it would kill him.

I like Randy's playing a lot but it's obvious where his influences came from and I don't see anything wrong with that. Like Eddie Randy created his own style and his own personality on the guitar, mission accomplished imo! Both were true pioneers on the guitar. Both had great live guitarsounds as well! 8)

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:00 pm 
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Flying Dutchman wrote:
Stiltzkin wrote:
I didn't know Lynch was influenced by Van Halen :?

George own words: "Eddie was the King and Randy was close second."


Weird, where did you read that?
I have videos with George saying that he got his technique
strictly from trying to imitate Jimi Hendrix.


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