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 Post subject: Randy's full potential
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:22 am 
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Now this is something that has been on my mind for a LONG time. I didn't dare bring this up over at the other place because, I knew the bloody outcome it would have ensued. BUT,.........Is it just me but, does it seem like Randy just exploded musically when he made the transition from QR to playing with Ozzy? Now I love EVERYTHING that Randy did but, come on!!! QR had some good songs but, the majority of it was...dare I say..."pop". And then enters the collaboration with Lee, Bob and Ozzy and it's like "HOLY FUCK!!!" TOTALLY EARTH SHAKING!!! The rhythms, the riffs, the leads!!!! It's like two totally different people playing and it can't be said that "time progressed him" because, it wasn't but a year or so between the two. So, in brief to me Randy didn't only open up Ozzy's potential....Playing with Ozzy, Lee and Bob opened up his. What do you think?

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Last edited by BIG_P on Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:33 am 
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Playing with Ozzy, Lee and Bob opened up his. What do you think?


Nah...I think it just made what was already evolving happen a bit quicker. Randy was unfuckingbelievbable when he was playing in QR - especially towards the end. I think it would have happened anyway and Randy would be alive today...sad, but true, IMHO.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:40 am 
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Randy Magic wrote:
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Playing with Ozzy, Lee and Bob opened up his. What do you think?


Nah...I think it just made what was already evolving happen a bit quicker. Randy was unfuckingbelievbable when he was playing in QR - especially towards the end. I think it would have happened anyway and Randy would be alive today...sad, but true, IMHO.

EXCELLENT POINT!!! Thank you and I believe every word that you say as you would know!!! :lol: God it must have been awesome!!!! :D

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:51 am 
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This topic has already made me feel like a dick!!! :lol: I'm not saying that QR sucked by no means......I just think his playing got more "evolved" if you dare. But, trust me R Magic would know better than the rest of us... :D Please share some stories.... would love to hear them. Thank you......P

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:38 am 
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I'm not saying that QR sucked by no means......I just think his playing got more "evolved"


Well, overall that era of QR was no where near the mammoth of The Blizzard of Oz. I was just trying to point out that when Randy shined on stage - he had moments that were the beginnings of what ended up to be "his style" that made The Blizzard of Oz's sound new and exciting - I really do not think another guitarist could have had the same impact, technically or artistically, again, IMHO.

QR were a great party band, and had incredible moments as a band, but alot of fans were more "Randy fans" than they were QR fans - this is why I think his evolution was already happening strongly in QR. Randy's biggest local competition was EVH, but everyone knew that Eddie was a flashy rockstar whereas Randy was a True Musician that played a "Rock Star." Big difference.

Randy's Potential is one of those things that will always be nothing but pure speculation, but, if you think of his talent at 25, and the fact he wanted to continue teaching and to be taught Classical styles more seriously...who know's?

Although, someone once told me the "best" guitarist out there is probably some nerdy guitar teacher with stage fright ala Ted Greene. Could be.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 6:37 am 
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Well. Ive always had this weird opinion really. At home, with QR, he never had much time to learn as such himself because he was either teaching his students or with the band etc. I predict while he was in England, he had a lot more time to learn and experiment which is what i predict he did. He made Blizzard of Ozz in the town next door to me, which is Stafford. They obviously mixed it in ridge farm, but the acual songs riffs, etc was made in a pub in Stafford. I will get some pictures for you sometime 8)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:26 am 
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skezza wrote:
Well. Ive always had this weird opinion really. At home, with QR, he never had much time to learn as such himself because he was either teaching his students or with the band etc. I predict while he was in England, he had a lot more time to learn and experiment which is what i predict he did. He made Blizzard of Ozz in the town next door to me, which is Stafford. They obviously mixed it in ridge farm, but the acual songs riffs, etc was made in a pub in Stafford. I will get some pictures for you sometime 8)

No weird opinion at all.
Like Bob Daisley said they were jamming and writing music 6 days a week whole day long. I don't think Randy had that much time for writing while being with QR. I was never a big fan of QR. But Randy's technique and style was already there before he joined Ozzy. But the songs were not good enough and too poppy. He didn't had the right direction yet to develop his tools to the fullest. Though I like listening to that stuff as well since it's interesting to hear where he was comming from.
Randy had an enormous talent but he needed other people to bring it out. In that respect I think the impact of Bob, Ozzy and Lee is always underated. Bob was a good song writer as well and his way of bassplaying was perfect for Randy to develop his more heavy/melodic style. He came up with lots of very original bass lines like the solo section in Crazy train. It's simple but very effective. No surprise Ozzy asked him back lots of times later. Ozzy didn't write complete songs or songtexts but very important he did come up with most of the vocal melodies. And those melodies did fit perfectly the stuff Randy/Bob wrote and turned them into songs. Later on Dairy Lee came up with some vocal ideas as well. I always think that the transformation Randy had was because he met some people who bring out the best of him, and he did also bring out the best of Bob and Ozzy.
They had a wonderful chemistry together and sometimes people forget that. Randy didn't do it alone, if so QR would sound a lot different! Just my opinion. :D

Looking forward to those pub pics! :twisted:

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 2:29 pm 
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Randy Magic wrote:
Randy's Potential is one of those things that will always be nothing but pure speculation, but, if you think of his talent at 25


just to draw a paralell ...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_jK978921Yw


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 3:37 pm 
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They had a wonderful chemistry together and sometimes people forget that. Randy didn't do it alone, if so QR would sound a lot different!


I think the others definitely helped Randy refine his style, and overall mucical ability. However, I think this would have happened eventually independent of any other players...I agree it would NOT have happened with QR and I think Randy realized that. Randy never really "quit" QR, he just faded away into the Blizzard. Randy was very dedicated to QR, and any project he was a part of, but was still independent by nature.

QR sounded the way they did mainly because of Kevin, not Randy.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:06 pm 
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i'd say QR was more Randys songwriting vehicle
while Blizzard, Diary ws more Bob, Lee and Randy ...
and to a certain degree .. Ozzy.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 10:43 pm 
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I think you see (hear) Randy grow when he left QR and joined Ozzy but then I think that if you listen to the Diary shows from 1982, he starts to sound less interested. Perhaps he was ready to move on! and wow what would that have sounded like?

I can see what RM meant perhaps Randy never left QR. But had he returned that would have been a band worth seeing. 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2006 11:54 pm 
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Randy never left QR. But had he returned that would have been a band worth seeing


Randy never actually quit QR, he just joined Ozzy and faded from one gig to the other. In the Fall of '79 two things happened - QR was being more aggressively promoted, hoping to finally catapult into the next level; and 2, Randy interviewed for Ozzy. I think Randy was keeping all of his options opened at the time, and took the chance when it was offered. I would have done the same thing.

If he returned to Los Angeles I really do not think he would have rejoined QR, or play with Kevin, but probably would have taken a bunch of time-off, and then create some sort of Project utilizing the connections he made in Ozzy. Of course, this is pure speculation, but you are correct when you say he was "less interested" during DOAM. I think DOAM would have been Randy's last record with Ozzy, especially since Bob and Lee were out. But again, pure speculation.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:35 am 
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QR sounded the way they did mainly because of Kevin, not Randy.

I could not agree more. And I'm proud and all of you should be as well......step back and realize that WE ARE ALL DISCUSSING what would be a VERY touch subject "somewhere else". :? 8) The key word...DISCUSSING like adults. See.....it can be done!!! Hats off to all!!! :wink: :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 8:53 am 
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It has been reported for years that the direction Quiet Riot took musically - especially at the time the first two records were recorded - was dictated by QR's management. They thought the glam/pop route was the best avenue for Quiet Riot and, since they were paying the bills, the boys did as they were told. The result was the poppy stuff we all have heard.

If you listen to the live recordings of QR around '79, you'll hear the same "pop" with a slightly harder edge. I believe this edge was the boys attitude underneath the music their management insisted they play.

I also believe, based on all I've read, that Delores was the sparkplug behind Randy joining Ozzy's band. From the accounts I've heard, Randy didn't want to audition, his mom pushed the idea because she didn't feel Quiet Riot would go much further. I'm sure they sat and talked about it and Delores convinced Randy to give it a shot. Most parents have these conversations with their kids about career moves. I have a short interview with QR's manager at the time ('79) and he states - for the record - that he felt Quiet Riot would break up within a year because the record companies weren't interested. Delores and Randy had to have known this, too. So when an opportunity to move ahead with a career in music presented itself (Ozzy), it only made sense to take the opportunity

Randy's playing in his practice time circa '78 and '79 was probably very much like what we hear with Ozzy. It just didn't fit Quiet Riot. So the "big change" is just the public version of his playing. If he was like most guitar players, he probably tape recorded some of his ideas for later reference. If Delores would ever release any of those tapes, the big mystery of how his playing made such a quantum leap would be apparent.

Now as for "if he'd lived and left Ozzy's band", I firmly believe that he'd be a popular guitar teacher in Los Angeles who probably wouldn't have continued recording and touring. He had already, "been there, done that." And it wasn't what he wanted to continue with, that's why he wanted to go back to school. Kelly Garni has said that Randy liked the sound of keyboards and may have pursued a band in the vien of late '70's Styx, but I think he'd probably have been content to play in such a band around L.A. He played guitar because he loved guitar, he had already tasted fame and would very likely have chosen to settle into a more ordinary life.

As for that clip of Jason Becker playing Paganinni... I don't think Randy Rhoads would have ever done that sort of thing. The whole "neo-classical" movement that Randy is lumped in with was started by Yngwie. Randy studied "classical" guitar and loved playing it, but Yngwie started playing violin pieces on guitar. I don't think Randy would have ever played that type of thing because he was much too original. I believe Randy would have taken the ingredients that Mozart or Beethoven used and created his own stuff. In my opinion, none of the classically influenced stuff Randy played on record sounds anything like any other guitar player. He understoof the concept of how classical pieces were built and used those concepts to build his own pieces. Most other players copied the original pieces and played them verbatim.

Think of it this way, John Williams composes music for Orchestra. The original Star Wars theme is as identifiable as Beethoven's 5th Symphony. Williams composes music using the same tools - the same building blocks - as Beethoven without ever plagiarizing him. I feel Randy would have done similar work later in life. In contrast, Yngwie, Becker, MacAlpine, Moore all started with sweeps and violin pieces and continued in that direction. They all have a classical feel simply because certain modes and arpeggios sound classical to us. As a rule, the "neo-classical" movement also has a big emphasis of playing fast and furious. Randy's most "classical" sounding piece - Revelation (Mother Earth) has no sweeps, is not really very fast and sounds nothing like Malmsteen, Becker, etc.

The last thing I'd like to say is that if he'd lived, I don't think any of these message boards would exist. I don't think Randy Rhoads would be the "name" he is now. I think he would have faded into obscurity - "that guy who played on Ozzy's first two records". A lot of bands came and went over the last 40 years with fabulous musicians in them. A lot of those musicians are still around but we never think about them or talk about them, regardless of whether or not we still listen to their music. For example, when's the last time you read an article about Rick Nielsen? I haven't read anything about him in years, but Cheap Trick is still playing and performing. He is still an excellent guitar player, but since he hasn't produced anything of note recently, he has "fallen off the radar". I believe Randy would have done the same. Unfortunately, he died and as a result his legendary status was cemented. He never had a chance to fade or go in an unpopular direction (ala EVH). The fact that we all wonder "what if" keeps Randy's legend alive as much as ther greatness of what he did do.

Just my point of view....


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 9:00 am 
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Trigger wrote:
I think you see (hear) Randy grow when he left QR and joined Ozzy but then I think that if you listen to the Diary shows from 1982, he starts to sound less interested. Perhaps he was ready to move on! and wow what would that have sounded like?

Exactly feel the same. My favorite Randy was during spring/summer '81. He had a lot of fire and really was into his playing. His sound and the bandsound was a lot better then. No annoying keyboard disturbing Randy's playing. During Diary tour, he played sometimes just crap, sometimes totally out of tune either. I always feel the Randy fire was gone a bit then..... :( But still he had sometimes brilliant moments as well.

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