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 Post subject: Re: Frenso - 2 January 1982 Footage
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:07 am 
Madman

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distortionplus wrote:
I don't understand why you guys use a copyright infringement excuse for potential RR/Ozzy videos not being posted? There is a huge number of big name performance videos on youtube. As for SO there is 30th Annie box set stuff on there already she is not having pulled. Anyone with RR rare vids or music just doesn't want to post it for these reasons. They are selfish with their stuff. They don't know how to post it. Owner of said footage thinks it's worth something. They don't know other people want to see it that bad. etc. Most that would happen is it would get pulled if for some reason SO freaked.



I'm not using copyright infringement as an "excuse" at all. There's really no "excuse" that needs to be made. CI is a fact. Period.

That being said, whether other artists pursue legal action is beside the point - we are talking about how SO would react, not anyone else. Given how protective she is of Ozzy's work and brand, it's not out of the realm of possibility that she would go after boots of stuff with Randy just to prove a point. Not saying it would happen for certain, but there's always the possibility.

I agree with you that there is no doubt more than one person out there that has Randy footage that doesn't want to share, doesn't know how to post the footage, and knows it's worth something. But that copyright infringement threat always hangs above their head. It is one factor in a list of factors that are preventing potential footage from seeing the light of day.


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 Post subject: Re: Frenso - 2 January 1982 Footage
PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:04 pm 
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I agree with the whole copyright thing being overblown...No one is going to sue anyone over anything that is put up on Youtube regarding Randy unless it is someone who is actually worth something....And even then, they are only going to get a warning not to do it again, not much is going to come of it.

These people are not afraid to upload it to Youtube, they don't want to upload it because then it is worth nothing from that point on...The thing I am surprised about is that we have not heard more stories like TAB's where someone actually shows footage to there friends or something along those lines that has never been released.


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 Post subject: Re: Frenso - 2 January 1982 Footage
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 2:44 am 
Madman

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Shockwave wrote:
I agree with the whole copyright thing being overblown...No one is going to sue anyone over anything that is put up on Youtube regarding Randy unless it is someone who is actually worth something....And even then, they are only going to get a warning not to do it again, not much is going to come of it.

These people are not afraid to upload it to Youtube, they don't want to upload it because then it is worth nothing from that point on...The thing I am surprised about is that we have not heard more stories like TAB's where someone actually shows footage to there friends or something along those lines that has never been released.


Well, I would say it really depends on the case, as to it being overblown. One artist may have no problem with it, while another might go right after people. People sometimes forget that Metallica went after a bunch of people for downloading their stuff. Yes, there was a huge backlash against it, and they had to backpedal because fans were so pissed off, but it did not negate the fact that it happened. To some degree, I think artists have eased up with their stance on the whole thing, but the courts continue to rattle the sabre about this about every few months.

Bottom line is this: the music and film industry should have embraced downloading and digital media ages ago and not fought it. They're still, to a degree, caught up in a dated mindset about the whole thing, but they have given it more of a chance. See iTunes for a prime example of the industry realizing that it is lucrative for them to give the public what they want at a reasonable price.

This segues into what you said above: the only reason some people with footage don't share is because the moment said footage hits the internet, it becomes a lot less valuable in terms of their ability to demand any monetary compensation for it. The mindset of most people is: if I can download this for free, why pay for it? That in itself is a whole other discussion (ie. why not support the industry that gives you what you love to hear/see, instead of destroying it by not putting the money necessary to create new things back into it?), but you're absolutely right: the value of the footage, money-wise, is lost, and most people are more concerned about that than actually putting something out there simply so other people can enjoy it. Sad, but true.


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 Post subject: Re: Frenso - 2 January 1982 Footage
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:52 am 
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i never understood the music is free mindset...its the only type of property that is ok to not have to pay its creator for because the downloader was born after 1985.

i have no idea who sells out stadiums these days, maybe only bands that where around when music wasnt free...that in itself should tell you how having to pay for music supports an industry that finances mega tours and band development...i think most bands play in theaters these days which is probably a better venue for sound...That s fine,unless you saw queen or van halen/dlr ,on a massive stage with a huge light show,and the artists wore an outfit/costume for the show and not come on stage in a hanes t shirt and levis looking like a tired car mechanic like they do today.
Maybe im old but i have not heard or gotten to know any bands like gnr or u2 in the last 15yrs.Coincidence?i think not.As bad as the music industry was at least you got some mega acts and shows.Today its all one hit wonders that burn out in months it seems.

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 Post subject: Re: Frenso - 2 January 1982 Footage
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 10:54 am 
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I have to ne honest, the mindset of there are no good bands but only one hit wonders today is ridiculous. There is great music out there today. There is more great music out there today that is available because of the Internet than you'd ever have 15 years ago. Bands that I can hear on pandora or YouTube or someone can post on a website are bands that would never have had a chance to be heard back in the day. I personally have found plenty of new bands on pandora.

Just because they are not on the radio or tv or magazines and you don't look for new good bands doesn't mean they don't exist. It might say more about you and your mindset than the availability of good bands. But bottom line, saying there are not good bands today is ridiculous. They had one hit wonders in the 50s 60s 70s and now. They are not a new phenomenon.


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 Post subject: Re: Frenso - 2 January 1982 Footage
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:53 pm 
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I personally am waiting for the next Van Halen or GNR. I mean I guess I should not hold my breath to much on this.


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 Post subject: Re: Frenso - 2 January 1982 Footage
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:40 am 
Madman

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mpavlic wrote:
I have to ne honest, the mindset of there are no good bands but only one hit wonders today is ridiculous. There is great music out there today. There is more great music out there today that is available because of the Internet than you'd ever have 15 years ago. Bands that I can hear on pandora or YouTube or someone can post on a website are bands that would never have had a chance to be heard back in the day. I personally have found plenty of new bands on pandora.

Just because they are not on the radio or tv or magazines and you don't look for new good bands doesn't mean they don't exist. It might say more about you and your mindset than the availability of good bands. But bottom line, saying there are not good bands today is ridiculous. They had one hit wonders in the 50s 60s 70s and now. They are not a new phenomenon.



I agree with you to a point here, but it seems to me the quality of music has gone down in general. It used to be even pop music could be depended on to be at least reasonably well written. Nowadays it seems like a lot of pop music is drivel, and a lot of it is EDM (electronic dance music), EDM-themed, or altered to some degree. Rock music has lost it's popularity, and the buying public is listening to other genres. People are so desperate for decent music sung by actual people that that's why people like Adele sell tons of records....her voice cuts through the bullshit. Not that I'm an Adele fan, but you get the idea.

I'm also a country fan, but similar things are happening there, too. Stupid, repetitive, similar themed songs have been the rage for the past couple years, and continue to be. If the song doesn't mention a tailgate, trucks, drinking, and calling women "girl", it doesn't sell. It's sad, because many country artists in the past were creative, driven individuals, and they had interesting lyrics (not everyone, just like any genre, of course) and something to actually say. Today, that's seemingly not the case.

There are good musicians and music in any genre, but I feel like people have to dig deeper to find it, because it's obscured by the corporate crap churned out by labels. Creativity and artist expression have been severely reigned in....and it's sad. People need to speak with their dollars and not buy shitty music. Because if they don't, the labels will continue to churn out inane turds.


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 Post subject: Re: Frenso - 2 January 1982 Footage
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:42 pm 
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Any band worth its salt will only become iconic over time do you think U2 had instant success. I remember when they played to a crowd of 30 people in a small club. The longer a band stays in the fans mind sight they will go onto better things but only with the support and backing of a good management company and record label. If you have not got that you may as well stick to playing covers at your local pub.


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 Post subject: Re: Frenso - 2 January 1982 Footage
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:53 pm 
Madman

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GUITARIDOL5682 wrote:
Any band worth its salt will only become iconic over time do you think U2 had instant success. I remember when they played to a crowd of 30 people in a small club. The longer a band stays in the fans mind sight they will go onto better things but only with the support and backing of a good management company and record label. If you have not got that you may as well stick to playing covers at your local pub.


True. However, the climate in the music industry has changed significantly over the years. It's not set up the same as it once was. A lot of bands don't have the support system behind them.

In the case of U2, and many others, though, the cream will rise to the top. Those who are talented will always find a way to make it to bigger stages and bigger successes.

Turning the conversation back to Randy, that's why he rose the way he did - he was undoubtedly talented, and he eventually made it to the big time with Ozzy. And his guitar work has stood the test of time! Here we are so many years later, on a message board dedicated to him, discussing his playing and work. That's pretty cool, and also speaks volumes about his talent, if you ask me.


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 Post subject: Re: Frenso - 2 January 1982 Footage
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:43 pm 
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These guys who filmed shows and have large personal collections seem to me to be obsessive with their stuff. Even if the monetary value is not substantial there is the rarity and the perceived prestige associated with having something no one else has. This also pertains to anything rare. The youtube video with the guy blocking the monitor showing the concert while showing the equipment he shot and edits with is like a taunt, I have this and, you don't thing. I don't think these guys who seriously shot and collect this stuff are generous types to begin with. They did it for the money or the prestige of having something you couldn't just go out and buy. If they dumped their collections on youtube then the stuff ceases to be rare and collector value automatically drops to zero. Then his prestige drops to zero. From a psychological standpoint it's pretty basic and not difficult to understand why these folks would not just give their stuff up to the public at large for free.


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 Post subject: Re: Frenso - 2 January 1982 Footage
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:01 pm 
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distortionplus wrote:
These guys who filmed shows and have large personal collections seem to me to be obsessive with their stuff. Even if the monetary value is not substantial there is the rarity and the perceived prestige associated with having something no one else has. This also pertains to anything rare. The youtube video with the guy blocking the monitor showing the concert while showing the equipment he shot and edits with is like a taunt, I have this and, you don't thing. I don't think these guys who seriously shot and collect this stuff are generous types to begin with. They did it for the money or the prestige of having something you couldn't just go out and buy. If they dumped their collections on youtube then the stuff ceases to be rare and collector value automatically drops to zero. Then his prestige drops to zero. From a psychological standpoint it's pretty basic and not difficult to understand why these folks would not just give their stuff up to the public at large for free.

You are probably right about this.


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 Post subject: Re: Frenso - 2 January 1982 Footage
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:37 pm 
Madman

Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:21 pm
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distortionplus wrote:
These guys who filmed shows and have large personal collections seem to me to be obsessive with their stuff. Even if the monetary value is not substantial there is the rarity and the perceived prestige associated with having something no one else has. This also pertains to anything rare. The youtube video with the guy blocking the monitor showing the concert while showing the equipment he shot and edits with is like a taunt, I have this and, you don't thing. I don't think these guys who seriously shot and collect this stuff are generous types to begin with. They did it for the money or the prestige of having something you couldn't just go out and buy. If they dumped their collections on youtube then the stuff ceases to be rare and collector value automatically drops to zero. Then his prestige drops to zero. From a psychological standpoint it's pretty basic and not difficult to understand why these folks would not just give their stuff up to the public at large for free.


You've summarized this nicely. The collector mindset is not always about money, for sure. I always think it's better if you have something rare to trade for other rare stuff....everyone wins! Some folks have a very selfish mindset, though, and just think about themselves, sadly. The "prestige" of having something no one else has is gone if there's no exclusivity about it, indeed.

To that end, taunting people with "look what I have" is uber-douchey, IMO.


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 Post subject: Re: Frenso - 2 January 1982 Footage
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:20 pm 
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distortionplus wrote:
These guys who filmed shows and have large personal collections seem to me to be obsessive with their stuff. Even if the monetary value is not substantial there is the rarity and the perceived prestige associated with having something no one else has. This also pertains to anything rare. The youtube video with the guy blocking the monitor showing the concert while showing the equipment he shot and edits with is like a taunt, I have this and, you don't thing. I don't think these guys who seriously shot and collect this stuff are generous types to begin with. They did it for the money or the prestige of having something you couldn't just go out and buy. If they dumped their collections on youtube then the stuff ceases to be rare and collector value automatically drops to zero. Then his prestige drops to zero. From a psychological standpoint it's pretty basic and not difficult to understand why these folks would not just give their stuff up to the public at large for free.



I have always that also...The other thing is that they have to be showing it to friends and such once in awhile to boost there ego. It's the same thing like the Phoenix brothers that show TAB the footage. There has to be quite a few other people that have done the same...


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 Post subject: Re: Frenso - 2 January 1982 Footage
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:23 pm 
Madman
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Shockwave wrote:
distortionplus wrote:
These guys who filmed shows and have large personal collections seem to me to be obsessive with their stuff. Even if the monetary value is not substantial there is the rarity and the perceived prestige associated with having something no one else has. This also pertains to anything rare. The youtube video with the guy blocking the monitor showing the concert while showing the equipment he shot and edits with is like a taunt, I have this and, you don't thing. I don't think these guys who seriously shot and collect this stuff are generous types to begin with. They did it for the money or the prestige of having something you couldn't just go out and buy. If they dumped their collections on youtube then the stuff ceases to be rare and collector value automatically drops to zero. Then his prestige drops to zero. From a psychological standpoint it's pretty basic and not difficult to understand why these folks would not just give their stuff up to the public at large for free.



I have always that also...The other thing is that they have to be showing it to friends and such once in awhile to boost there ego. It's the same thing like the Phoenix brothers that show TAB the footage. There has to be quite a few other people that have done the same...


i know, i know, you mentioned this before when the rants start with footage. I get pm's and questions all the time from everyone I dont know and It's to the point I wish I would never said anything, your damned if you hold things back, your damned for taunting. I even get the photos were faked, I wish I was that good at photoshop. No one was there, but if the ego angle makes people feel better to think that then it's on them. With this Super 8 guy at the VH forum you can directly exchange your thoughts with him and no one there is calling him obsessive directly to him but yet people come here and do it. He said he didn't film Fresno Ozzy and no one he knew wanted to go to that show, it was a bad audience turn out cause of Ozzy's rep of the crap he did. He did say he was at the DOTG shows too if anyone noticed but I am not going there, probably get smart remarks about that too. Maybe he will end up releasing his other footage of all the bands they taped over the years. He's the one that took the risk and went in there and filmed it , he has the rights to do what he wants with it. Happy 4th.


Last edited by TAB on Fri Jul 04, 2014 7:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Frenso - 2 January 1982 Footage
PostPosted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:41 pm 
Madman

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So, this guy has put up EVH's "Eruption" on YouTube, complete with watermarks, no doubt to avoid copying and/or other folks claiming material that he shot.

I dunno, guys, I still feel that this guy has footage, or has access to it. Just a hunch, but I can't shake it. Once again, though, it's his right to do what he will with it.


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