On Bob and Lee's input

[Paul Wolfe]

The only thing that isn't completely clear is before the Palladium gig. It's been said that Bob was worried about Ozzy's voice, and it's also been said that Bob and Lee wanted double paychecks for doing a double gig (Which is fair, you don't work two shifts at work without getting payed extra)

What I found interesting is that the Palladium thing was with Bob and Lee, yet on the Box video, Sharon talks about the two sets that night and how both Ozzy and Randy were really up on the idea and then they show footage of Rudy and Tommy... historical re-writes again!

[sytharnia]

and it's also been said that Bob and Lee wanted double paychecks for doing a double gig (Which is fair, you don't work two shifts at work without getting payed extra)

technically if you are on a salary then you can often do extra work and not be paid anymore for it....if you are on a wage then yes you should expect more

[Cryptic Night]

and it's also been said that Bob and Lee wanted double paychecks for doing a double gig (Which is fair, you don't work two shifts at work without getting payed extra)

technically if you are on a salary then you can often do extra work and not be paid anymore for it....if you are on a wage then yes you should expect more

I'm guessing they were getting paid on a kind of "per gig" thing, which would explain why they asked for double (If they did)

[rokket]

and it's also been said that Bob and Lee wanted double paychecks for doing a double gig (Which is fair, you don't work two shifts at work without getting payed extra)

technically if you are on a salary then you can often do extra work and not be paid anymore for it....if you are on a wage then yes you should expect more

I don't think a salary could have come into play back then in the early days, imagine if they contracted Bob, Randy and Lee at say 20K per year....and the first album and tour bombed out..........who would cough up the cash???

[Bongo Christ]

Bob's a great bass player and a decent lyricist but it's a stretch to suggest his contribution to those first 2 Ozzy albums is anything more than that. As I've mentioned elsewhere on here, it's all about Ozzy and Randy. If he was such an accomplished songwriter then surely he would have gone on to bigger and better things without riding on Ozzy's coat tails. Uriah Heep? Widowmaker?

He should be thankful he got the opportunity to be a part of Ozzy's band. After all, I'd hazard a guess that 99% of people that buy his book will do so to read about that chapter in his life only.

As for Paul Wolfe's comment about re-writing history, what's so difficult to accept about Sharon's comment in the documentary? What has Ozzy and Randy being excited about playing the Palladium got to do with Bob and Lee?

[shred1]

After all, I'd hazard a guess that 99% of people that buy his book will do so to read about that chapter in his life only.
BINGO!

[shred1]

What I found interesting is that the Palladium thing was with Bob and Lee, yet on the Box video, Sharon talks about the two sets that night and how both Ozzy and Randy were really up on the idea and then they show footage of Rudy and Tommy... historical re-writes again!

Not a rewrite, by the sounds of things, Bob and Lee were in the band when the Palladium shows were booked.
The Rhoads, Sarzo, Aldridge line-up rehearsed for weeks, not months. This went down fast.

[estang74]

Here's my 2 cents

First off, good discussion for sure. Lot of great points and lot of questions with no real answers that keep us really guessing.

There is a big difference between the Randy Rhoads from the QR era and the RR from the Ozzy Era. I really wonder how much of that was Rhoads pushing himself or how much of that was the musicians he was surrounded with during his time with Ozzy. Maybe it was a combination?

I do know that Bob played some great bass lines on those two records and both Bob and Lee were pro's and RR hadn't played with pro's yet. I know anytime you play with musicians better than you or musicians that have more experience than you that you will learn from the experience. The jump even from BOO to Diary is huge.

I have a feeling that Randy and Bob wrote about 90 percent of those records and Ozzy contributed to most of the melody lines. I'm sure Lee was involved in the writing process also as they probably jammed a bunch of the songs to get their structure.

One other point I would like to make is music is really about chemistry and being in the right place in the right time. There are very few people who last a long time in the biz and they do because they have that brand. People like Madonna, Metallica, U2, Bon Jovi, Jay Z come to mind. Bob co wrote some amazing songs and he wrote a lot of tunes for Ozzy after RR passed away. Were they as good as the first two albums? No, but he did co write some great songs with Jake E Lee for sure. Really sit down and think of some artists who have been involved with big albums and then have gone on to write big songs in other bands. There is not a big list, so saying that Bob didn't do much with his career after Ozzy makes him non important, isn't really fair.

The Chemistry of those four musicians was magical and we got 2 great albums from them. All 4 of those musicians created those records(no matter what some people try to make you believe) and none of them created anything close to as good after those two records(unfortunately, RR never got that chance)

[Sky]

Lars is a genius when it comes to songwriting. As far as Bob goes, he no doubt played an important part in those two albums -- as did the other 3 persons (minus Lee, perhaps). I just don't like Bob as a human being.

I still maintain that the lyrics are nonsensical and largely unimportant, though.

To each his own. Seems to me Bob answers every question he's asked and always treats people with respect. Love to know what you think of Sharon... or do you only judge human beings?

[electricmombie]

Bob's a great bass player and a decent lyricist but it's a stretch to suggest his contribution to those first 2 Ozzy albums is anything more than that. As I've mentioned elsewhere on here, it's all about Ozzy and Randy. If he was such an accomplished songwriter then surely he would have gone on to bigger and better things without riding on Ozzy's coat tails. Uriah Heep? Widowmaker?

He should be thankful he got the opportunity to be a part of Ozzy's band. After all, I'd hazard a guess that 99% of people that buy his book will do so to read about that chapter in his life only.

As for Paul Wolfe's comment about re-writing history, what's so difficult to accept about Sharon's comment in the documentary? What has Ozzy and Randy being excited about playing the Palladium got to do with Bob and Lee?

Alright.

But consider this: Bob Daisley co-wrote every song on those first two albums, aside from Randy writing and playing "Dee" on 'Blizzard Of Ozz'...

Lee Kerslake also co-wrote and, I imagine, co-arranged the songs...

Bob Daisley has worked on no less than six Ozzy solo albums as a bass player and songwriter..

He's not that marginal in the overall scheme of things in the Ozzy story.

Ozzy and Randy get the visible credit, 'cos it's easier and most recognizable.

Bob Daisley's role is just as crucial and integral as Ozzy's or Randy's. The same applies for Lee Kerslake..

I read in here the other day that the reason Ozzy and Sharon really wanted to sack Bob and Lee was because they didn't look the way they thought people wanted Ozzy's band to look..

Yeah. We were all clamoring to see Rudy lick his bass in his bright red leather pants and Tommy Aldridge with his afro and white tank top on..


Come on now... lol

[electricmombie]

If Bob Daisley kept going back time and time again, knowing somehow that he more than likely would be baited to be gypped financially one way or the other by the Osbournes, then he has no one but himself to blame. That's being a fool and a half. I get the lure of him working with Ozzy over and over because they do bring out the best in one another musically.

All of this is weird. It never ends, does it?

How is he a fool for continuing work on BATM and on? He was smart about it. He didn't want royalties, he took a lump sum after those albums. He sold his portions to Ozzy, so he has no rights over those albums.

Besides, he didn't know that the Osbournes were getting his royalties until I think 1987-ish. Before that, he thought that Don Arden was getting the royalties.

True, it was smart for him to get back in with them when he thought The Osbournes were gonna help he and Lee out with the Don Arden lawsuit, but he did last work with Ozzy in '93 and early '94 on the aborted 'X Ray' project with Ozzy and Steve Vai..


Smart yet a tad foolish. I stand behind that.

[electricmombie]

If Bob Daisley kept going back time and time again, knowing somehow that he more than likely would be baited to be gypped financially one way or the other by the Osbournes, then he has no one but himself to blame. That's being a fool and a half. I get the lure of him working with Ozzy over and over because they do bring out the best in one another musically.

All of this is weird. It never ends, does it?

How is he a fool for continuing work on BATM and on? He was smart about it. He didn't want royalties, he took a lump sum after those albums. He sold his portions to Ozzy, so he has no rights over those albums.

Besides, he didn't know that the Osbournes were getting his royalties until I think 1987-ish. Before that, he thought that Don Arden was getting the royalties.

It's great that he did go back and help out time and time again, for Ozzy and Bob get one another musically. Plus, Bob and Lee thought that Sharon and Ozzy would aid them in their lawsuit against Don Arden. Bob last worked with Ozzy briefly prior to the 'Ozzmosis' album, when Ozzy and Steve Vai were kicking around the ideas for the aborted 'X-Ray' project.


He's smart, yet a tad foolish for returning over and over.. More invitations to be messed with and ripped off somehow.

[shred1]

Read up on Don Arden and his history BEFORE Blizzard Of Ozz was even an idea, then ask yourself if you would do business with him.
I am gonna stick my neck out and say..... I wouldn't.

Bottom line. Bob knew better.

I will say it again too. Don't hate Tommy and Rudy. Tommy was Ozzy's pick. Rudy was Randy's pick. It is who THEY wanted. Our opinions mean nothing.
They got offered the gig and took it.

[GUITARIDOL5682]

I will say it again too. Don't hate Tommy and Rudy. Tommy was Ozzy's pick. Rudy was Randy's pick. It is who THEY wanted. Our opinions mean nothing.
They got offered the gig and took it.

Well Randy didn't have much option he knew that Tommy had always been Ozzy's perfect drummer and he then became available. So with Lee out of the equation Bob followed him with due respect. But it was never Randy's decission he would of prefered for the original line up to stay together. When they needed a bass player,Randy mentioned Rudy to Ozzy.

[zennman]

Good post!!!

Here's my 2 cents

First off, good discussion for sure. Lot of great points and lot of questions with no real answers that keep us really guessing.

There is a big difference between the Randy Rhoads from the QR era and the RR from the Ozzy Era. I really wonder how much of that was Rhoads pushing himself or how much of that was the musicians he was surrounded with during his time with Ozzy. Maybe it was a combination?

I do know that Bob played some great bass lines on those two records and both Bob and Lee were pro's and RR hadn't played with pro's yet. I know anytime you play with musicians better than you or musicians that have more experience than you that you will learn from the experience. The jump even from BOO to Diary is huge.

I have a feeling that Randy and Bob wrote about 90 percent of those records and Ozzy contributed to most of the melody lines. I'm sure Lee was involved in the writing process also as they probably jammed a bunch of the songs to get their structure.

One other point I would like to make is music is really about chemistry and being in the right place in the right time. There are very few people who last a long time in the biz and they do because they have that brand. People like Madonna, Metallica, U2, Bon Jovi, Jay Z come to mind. Bob co wrote some amazing songs and he wrote a lot of tunes for Ozzy after RR passed away. Were they as good as the first two albums? No, but he did co write some great songs with Jake E Lee for sure. Really sit down and think of some artists who have been involved with big albums and then have gone on to write big songs in other bands. There is not a big list, so saying that Bob didn't do much with his career after Ozzy makes him non important, isn't really fair.

The Chemistry of those four musicians was magical and we got 2 great albums from them. All 4 of those musicians created those records(no matter what some people try to make you believe) and none of them created anything close to as good after those two records(unfortunately, RR never got that chance)