Bob Daisley's grail stuff.

[rokket]

Great points about Bob.

Yeah, maybe it wasn't really Randy, Jake, or Zakk...IT WAS DEFINITELY BOB.

I'll go to my grave someday thinking that Bob was the absolute "key" ingredient to Ozzy's solo success.

Imagine if Ozzy would have never hooked up with Bob, and would have kept some local "hack" players that he was good buddies with. They would have POSSIBLY put out an album, and chances are, it would have flopped. That would have been the end of his career. No doubt. Nobody would have given him a second chance.

They were all key ingredients, together as a band, Ozzy, Randy and Bob on their own wouldn't have seen the first two albums recorded. Fact is, we all give honors and raving reviews to Ozzy and Randy, Ozzy and Jake, Ozzy and Zakk, for the masterpieces they created, but tend to forget that Bob, was the main lyric writer and someone who had just as much input into the arrangement of the music as Randy, Jake and Zakk.

And to add insult to injury, gets treated like rubbish by the Osbournes, who just recently wouldn't work something out with him so us "fans" could hear the 5+ hours of unheard Blizzard/Diary sessions.

I'll go to my grave knowing that if Ozzy hadn't had Randy and Bob, we wouldn't have had Blizzard and Diary.....because with those two albums all Ozzy had to rely on was his crash from fame with Black Sabbath, a drug and alcohol addiction and the daughter of a record company manager/owner who could perhaps salvage a money making opportunity out of him and did.

IMO...the only reason Ozzy got anywhere on his own was the songs, Randy's playing, and Sharon...........without that what did we have....the ex. singer of Black Sabbath.....that wasn't going to do much for him on its own.

[rokket]

What propelled QR into world wide fame and fortune, a song......."Cum On Feel The Noize".......a cover......all the years Randy was with them it never happened. So clearly havng a great guitarist simply doesn't make you popular on it's own. And after that....."Mama Weer All Crazee Now"...another cover....a song.

Fame and fortune is all about "the song".....you don't have to be an amazing musician, you have to be an amazing lyric writer AND arrange music.

[AndrewT1976]

Those two QR covers were also done at the right time. In 1978, they wouldn't have done anything. In 1983, the world was ready for it.

QR was the first "Heavy Metal" band to chart a #1 single.

[distortionplus]

Also the title track MH is not such a bad song written by the band. Of all their songs that one will be the most remembered IMHO. I do believe the pieces fell together in Ozzy's favor. Considering Randy's talent I think he would have went somewhere regardless of his tenure with Ozzy.

Think about it most of Randy's contemporaries got their chance in the 80's. It could be argued most (not all) would have been considered lesser players than he was. The band that could not get a deal (QR) eventually got one. If you look at from a talent perspective for the most part Randy was the most talented guy in whatever room he happened to walk into.

[fortress]

I think Ozzys creativity is often overlooked. Some fans wanna give all the credit to Randy, Bob Daisley wants to take most of the credit himself. Sure he covers it up by saying it was a combination of the four, but at the end of the day if you read Bobs interviews, its "I wrote this lyric" " I came up with that title" I came up with that melody" None of us were there, so we really don't know what transpired. Its easy to say Ozzy was drunk and can't remember what really happened, but I don't buy that. I don't think Ozzy gets enough credit. If you look at the list of songs Bob is credited with writing throughout his career, the only memorable ones are the ones Ozzy sang. I honestly think Ozzy contributed more to the writing process than Bob gives him credit for. If he was so mad at Ozzy then why did he continue to work with him throughout the years? Because he had a winning formula. Thats why. Ozzy has had huge success no matter who his guitar player has been, and no matter what band has backed him. Ozzy deserves just as much credit as anyone.


Matt

Its not because a song isnt in the top 40 charts that this song is bad!! Bob song were more remembered cuz of the big pub and ozzy name, not because this 1000times better than he did write with other folks

Bigger sales doenst equal better musics. And who is buying ozzy music these days for the music itself?? The last good album of Ozzy is no more tears.. so, that's speak for itself

[fortress]

Also the title track MH is not such a bad song written by the band. Of all their songs that one will be the most remembered IMHO. I do believe the pieces fell together in Ozzy's favor. Considering Randy's talent I think he would have went somewhere regardless of his tenure with Ozzy.

Think about it most of Randy's contemporaries got their chance in the 80's. It could be argued most (not all) would have been considered lesser players than he was. The band that could not get a deal (QR) eventually got one. If you look at from a talent perspective for the most part Randy was the most talented guy in whatever room he happened to walk into.

Cum on feel the noise was a good cover but personnaly, its not my favorite on this album. i kinda love all the song

[Remedylane]

Im not trying to say Ozzy wrote the songs or that Ozzy deserves more credit that Bob. Im only saying he deserves more credit than he gets. And again, none of us were there during song writing sessions. I can agree that if not for the band that Ozzy assembled after Sabbath that he potentially could have flopped. But again,there is no way to know that. Bob certainly didn't write all the guitar riffs over the years. He didn't write the guitar solos. He didn't write the drum parts. Im sure he had a hand in arranging some songs. And yes, hes written lots of cool lyrics. But a great song is a great song. No matter what the lyrics are. If Crazy Train were about flying through the sky in a crazy plane, it would still be just as popular. People dig the song for the music first. Hell, everyone knows the song, but the only lyric that most average people can tell you is "going off the rails on a Crazy Train"

Im not trying to discount what Bob did. Bob is an amazing musician. But he tries to take all the credit himself. Ok, Ozzy was a mess when he left Sabbath. We all know that. He can't remember what all exactly happened. Randy is dead, so he can't tell us what all happened. So all we have to go on is what Bob and Lee say. Lee doesn't really say much. I just know that their are 3 sides to every story. When you have 2 opposing sides, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. And as for No More Tears, Bob didn't do anything on that album other play bass. The music was already written. We can go back and forth about it for days. I just simply feel while Bob deserves credit, he doesn't deserve all the credit. But none of us were there for the song writing sessions. So we will never know the entire truth.


Matt

[axeman_12656]

Im not trying to say Ozzy wrote the songs or that Ozzy deserves more credit that Bob. Im only saying he deserves more credit than he gets. And again, none of us were there during song writing sessions. I can agree that if not for the band that Ozzy assembled after Sabbath that he potentially could have flopped. But again,there is no way to know that. Bob certainly didn't write all the guitar riffs over the years. He didn't write the guitar solos. He didn't write the drum parts. Im sure he had a hand in arranging some songs. And yes, hes written lots of cool lyrics. But a great song is a great song. No matter what the lyrics are. If Crazy Train were about flying through the sky in a crazy plane, it would still be just as popular. People dig the song for the music first. Hell, everyone knows the song, but the only lyric that most average people can tell you is "going off the rails on a Crazy Train"

Im not trying to discount what Bob did. Bob is an amazing musician. But he tries to take all the credit himself. Ok, Ozzy was a mess when he left Sabbath. We all know that. He can't remember what all exactly happened. Randy is dead, so he can't tell us what all happened. So all we have to go on is what Bob and Lee say. Lee doesn't really say much. I just know that their are 3 sides to every story. When you have 2 opposing sides, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. And as for No More Tears, Bob didn't do anything on that album other play bass. The music was already written. We can go back and forth about it for days. I just simply feel while Bob deserves credit, he doesn't deserve all the credit. But none of us were there for the song writing sessions. So we will never know the entire truth.


Matt

+1

I love Bob... nice guy.. i mean we can't discredit what he did. But he seems to want all the glory.

and to be honest, If the grail stuff was released we would all bitch that its not as good as Bob played it up to be. admit it. you know its true.

[Remedylane]

Im not trying to say Ozzy wrote the songs or that Ozzy deserves more credit that Bob. Im only saying he deserves more credit than he gets. And again, none of us were there during song writing sessions. I can agree that if not for the band that Ozzy assembled after Sabbath that he potentially could have flopped. But again,there is no way to know that. Bob certainly didn't write all the guitar riffs over the years. He didn't write the guitar solos. He didn't write the drum parts. Im sure he had a hand in arranging some songs. And yes, hes written lots of cool lyrics. But a great song is a great song. No matter what the lyrics are. If Crazy Train were about flying through the sky in a crazy plane, it would still be just as popular. People dig the song for the music first. Hell, everyone knows the song, but the only lyric that most average people can tell you is "going off the rails on a Crazy Train"

Im not trying to discount what Bob did. Bob is an amazing musician. But he tries to take all the credit himself. Ok, Ozzy was a mess when he left Sabbath. We all know that. He can't remember what all exactly happened. Randy is dead, so he can't tell us what all happened. So all we have to go on is what Bob and Lee say. Lee doesn't really say much. I just know that their are 3 sides to every story. When you have 2 opposing sides, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. And as for No More Tears, Bob didn't do anything on that album other play bass. The music was already written. We can go back and forth about it for days. I just simply feel while Bob deserves credit, he doesn't deserve all the credit. But none of us were there for the song writing sessions. So we will never know the entire truth.


Matt

+1

I love Bob... nice guy.. i mean we can't discredit what he did. But he seems to want all the glory.

and to be honest, If the grail stuff was released we would all bitch that its not as good as Bob played it up to be. admit it. you know its true.

LOL. Quite possibly. Im sure some folks would be disappointed. Ive done my share of bitching on here about the new footage. I think some folks on here misunderstand me. I like the footage and Im happy its out! I personally just expected better quality and don't feel its worth the price tag. I still hope it gets a stand alone release. Ill for sure buy it just like I did the remasters.

Its hard to tell whats on Bobs tapes. I hope we get to hear them one day, but its not looking good. I have no idea how much the Osbournes offered him for the tapes, but he clearly wanted more money, and it doesn't seem that he will "leak" it on to the net anytime soon. Chances are, we will never get to hear it. I find that to be a travesty.

Matt

[RhoadsRockPhotographer]

Im not trying to say Ozzy wrote the songs or that Ozzy deserves more credit that Bob. Im only saying he deserves more credit than he gets.

No he doesn't.

Ozzy is a self-serving tool.

[rokket]

Im not trying to say Ozzy wrote the songs or that Ozzy deserves more credit that Bob. Im only saying he deserves more credit than he gets. And again, none of us were there during song writing sessions. I can agree that if not for the band that Ozzy assembled after Sabbath that he potentially could have flopped. But again,there is no way to know that. Bob certainly didn't write all the guitar riffs over the years. He didn't write the guitar solos. He didn't write the drum parts. Im sure he had a hand in arranging some songs. And yes, hes written lots of cool lyrics. But a great song is a great song. No matter what the lyrics are. If Crazy Train were about flying through the sky in a crazy plane, it would still be just as popular. People dig the song for the music first. Hell, everyone knows the song, but the only lyric that most average people can tell you is "going off the rails on a Crazy Train"

Im not trying to discount what Bob did. Bob is an amazing musician. But he tries to take all the credit himself. Ok, Ozzy was a mess when he left Sabbath. We all know that. He can't remember what all exactly happened. Randy is dead, so he can't tell us what all happened. So all we have to go on is what Bob and Lee say. Lee doesn't really say much. I just know that their are 3 sides to every story. When you have 2 opposing sides, the truth usually lies somewhere in the middle. And as for No More Tears, Bob didn't do anything on that album other play bass. The music was already written. We can go back and forth about it for days. I just simply feel while Bob deserves credit, he doesn't deserve all the credit. But none of us were there for the song writing sessions. So we will never know the entire truth.


Matt

+1

I love Bob... nice guy.. i mean we can't discredit what he did. But he seems to want all the glory.

and to be honest, If the grail stuff was released we would all bitch that its not as good as Bob played it up to be. admit it. you know its true.

LOL. Quite possibly. Im sure some folks would be disappointed. Ive done my share of bitching on here about the new footage. I think some folks on here misunderstand me. I like the footage and Im happy its out! I personally just expected better quality and don't feel its worth the price tag. I still hope it gets a stand alone release. Ill for sure buy it just like I did the remasters.

Its hard to tell whats on Bobs tapes. I hope we get to hear them one day, but its not looking good. I have no idea how much the Osbournes offered him for the tapes, but he clearly wanted more money, and it doesn't seem that he will "leak" it on to the net anytime soon. Chances are, we will never get to hear it. I find that to be a travesty.

Matt

I don't know what the Osbournes offered him either other than that he said it was "very little".... and that it wasn't an instant pay out he was looking for, but to have an agreement with the Osbournes that, the tapes could form a part of the anniversary box set, and that for his contribution of the tapes he would receive a royalty, but the Osbournes made it quite clear that they were not interested in anything like that, so no deal, it didn't even get past that stage in discussions .

Which is a shame, it would seem, at least for the most part that, the Osbournes didn't consider how cool Randy fans would think it would be to hear those tapes, and didn't consider that it would be a worthy addition to the anniversary box set. To have the recordings again is one thing, but to hear rehearsal/writing sessions would be amazing.

I'd love to know if the Osbournes intend to pay the original band members royalties due on the sale of the box set??

If those tapes were mine, I wouldn't "leak" them onto the internet either. If Bob has the original tapes, and no other copies exist, then it would be pretty obvious to the Osbournes where it originally was "leaked" from.....and they'd sue him most likely......then it would be up to him to prove that his copies were not the only ones and that he didn't "leak" them. Na....stuff that idea.

[Cryptic Night]

Its hard to tell whats on Bobs tapes. I hope we get to hear them one day, but its not looking good. I have no idea how much the Osbournes offered him for the tapes, but he clearly wanted more money, and it doesn't seem that he will "leak" it on to the net anytime soon. Chances are, we will never get to hear it. I find that to be a travesty.

Matt

I just want to say that yes, he did want more money (A royalty, as was already said) but he also wanted a say on what was released on those tapes. If he just handed them over and got a payout, the Osbournes could literally do whatever they want with those tapes, and then rewrite history (As we all know they try to do) to basically not include Bob and Lee as the musicians they were. They would change it to basically be Randy writing the songs out or something, maybe SUPER small input from Bob and Lee, and then Ozzy doing something important.

Bob didn't want that to happen, I'm sure that's part of the reason why he didn't give them the tapes.

[hansolo]

Ozzy does need to come forward about Bob and Lee's contributions, even if they don't give 'em any money (bad joke). Bob and Lee got screwed and one can only know they were screwed after the fact. I would figure musicians don't worry about the "business end" and only think of working again or next project. Mind on the game - Let the lawyers/barristers handle that end. But yes, it's great if you have Peter Grant.

Didn't Sharon say, "You can hear the guys talking in the studio"? Is there any talking on the box cd's? I haven't got my box yet! I think that was a tease in hopes that they got the grail tapes. All I know is I would love to hear that stuff. I love outtake/rehearsal tapes as well as boots. It just gives a fuller picture of the band. Insight for the unblind!

[rokket]

Ozzy does need to come forward about Bob and Lee's contributions, even if they don't give 'em any money (bad joke). Bob and Lee got screwed and one can only know they were screwed after the fact. I would figure musicians don't worry about the "business end" and only think of working again or next project. Mind on the game - Let the lawyers/barristers handle that end. But yes, it's great if you have Peter Grant.

Didn't Sharon say, "You can hear the guys talking in the studio"? Is there any talking on the box cd's? I haven't got my box yet! I think that was a tease in hopes that they got the grail tapes. All I know is I would love to hear that stuff. I love outtake/rehearsal tapes as well as boots. It just gives a fuller picture of the band. Insight for the unblind!

Yep...those tapes would have given us a real insight into the development of the songs. Just knowing that even two hours of those tapes were going to be in the box set would have had me excited. After being in bands for the last 25 years, the best stuff is the rehearsal stuff, and "behind the scenes" footage......i.e wouldn't it have been amazing if a camera had been present at Ridge Farm for even just ten minutes...!!!

And yeah, musicians tend to concentrate more on the band and music than legal issues like contracts....even the Beatles and Elvis got screwed in that department.

[Vtrockgod]

We all know that Ozzy Osbourne can't play an instrument and needs others to put songs together. With that being said, Ozzy has a remarkable talent for melodies and has been a part of more classics than most artists have SONGS. Even Ozzy admits that he liked Bob Daisley and that Daisley helped write the lyrics. But what do Tony Iommi, Randy Rhoads, Bob Daisley, Jake E Lee and Zakk Wylde all have in common besides playing with Ozzy? Most of their greatest and most well-known songs were written while with Ozzy. Ozzy's longevity is remarkable and to do so means that he's more than a one trick pony. I think the first two albums are clearly his best solo work, but I also think he has put out solid records throughout the years. The acclaim, record and ticket sales bear out he's either the luckiest man in history or he had a lot to do with it (I favor mainly the latter and some of the former).

I can understand the Osbourne camp's reluctance to work with Daisley: if someone had tried to sue me multiple times, I'd be hesitant to do business too. Wouldn't everyone here as well? Somebody has already posted that there's three sides to every story: we as fans do not know what actually happened. But my hunch is that it's somewhere in between the Daisley and Osbourne version. I have no doubts Sharon can be a total witch to do business with. And I'll bet there's times she was completely right to be so hardnosed. Did I agree with the re-recordings? Absolutely not. But I can understand being so fed up dealing with someone that you attempt to completely minimize them if they're constantly slagging you.

If the Blizzard of Ozz was a band and not a solo act, why did Ozzy have the ability to fire Kerslake and Daisley? Why have the courts consistently sided with the Osbournes? If Daisley was really mistreated that bad, why did he work with Ozzy for on and off over a span of fifteen years? He wasn't a virgin to the harsh realities of the music business and neither was Kerslake. Either Daisley is a masochist, completely incompetent in terms of the business side of music or things aren't completely in sync with how he remembers them. I don't think Bob is either of the first two.

The first lineup was magical: Bob is a rock solid bass player and good with lyrics, Randy was a stellar guitarist and Ozzy has one of the most unique voices in rock. The songs for the first album were pretty much done before Lee came in, but he contributed significantly to the second batch of songs and I actually prefer "Diary" to "Blizzard". I would love to hear what's on the "Grail" tapes because I'm fascinated in the process and how the material evolved. If it's not to be, it's not to be. But I for one am glad we got a killer live cd and more footage of Randy.