Rhoads, Lee and Wylde Analysis
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metal_head6704
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Obviously Randy stands way above the other two....Im not a big fan of Jakes playing on the Randy Material, I think he was too concentrated on making a name for himself and of course he had HUGE shoes to fill. As far as Zakk goes he plays Randy's material much closer to the overall feel and structure...he even tips the hat (So to speak) to Randy during his solo .........
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Paul Wolfe
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Zakk is also playing in an era where the "heavy" sound is more popular. That stuff wouldn't have gone over nearly so well in 1980 when Randy came into the spotlight. What sounds like pop influenced metal now was "heavy" metal then. Same goes for Jake's era with Ozzy, there were a LOT more keyboards while Jake was in the band.Stiltzkin wrote:yeah, well, he has that Sabbath/Iommi influenceRandyFan100 wrote:I think that Zakk differs from Jake or Randy, to me he's more "heavy", you can see that in his work with Black Label Society.
which I think both Randy and Jake didn't have.
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metal_head6704
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guitarists
All of the guitarists Ozzy has had with him have been great, you can't really compare one to another as they are all very individual in their own right.
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The_Scratch
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Re: Rhoads, Lee and Wylde Analysis
As a guitar player I find my perspective somewhat different than just a "listener".
RANDY is a difficult guitarist to copy. You have to have serious guitar chops to play much of his compositions in a manner doing them justice. You can't just fake your way through it. With that being said JAKE and ZAKK both have serious chops.
The most astounding thing to me about Randy is that the vast majority of his guitar ability, knowledge and chops came from musical lessons and teaching. He never copied anyone per-se, but simply absorbed aspects of other players approach into his own and made it uniquely his own. Sure there is some EDDIE VAN HALEN in his playing, but thats part of the scene at the time... he grew up with it. Randy even commented that you almost have to do something of that nature or no-one will take you seriously. Randy didn't own hundreds of albums of famous guitar players. I don't think he really had fantasies about wanting to play or be like anyone else. Hell, I have numerous interviews where he states his first influence was ELVIS PRESLEY and some of his guitar idols were Mick Ronson & Glen Buxton, both of whom he was exposed to from concerts, not from listening to albums and trying to copy them. Neither of them can be considerd guitar innovators, even if Randy copied their stuff I doubt we'd even notice..
As of 1982 there really only two guitarists who had the chops to stand up and prove they were supreme talents... EDDIE VAN HALEN and RANDY RHOADS... it would be another year before YNGWIE MALMSTEEN came along. ANGUS YOUNG certainly has to be considered in this group in terms of popularity but theres not a snowballs chance in hell he could play on that level.
Think of it this way... every major guitar player since Randy has an impressive list of influences to learn from and copy, most before him also had major guitar inflences, but Randy kind of went on his own and was raised in a somewhat more isolated musical environment. I recall the article that said a student once asked him to teach "Walk This Way"... this was 1976... Aerosmith were huge... Randy didn't know the song. He had to go get his brothers album to listen to it.
Thats crazy.
Plain and simple Randy was mostly learning on his own and just picking up ideas along the way.
I think he was kinda naive as a guitarist.
It's certainly part of his charm for me.
JAKE has the edge over ZAKK I believe based simply on the fact that he played and elaborated on Randys music very well.
Bark at the moon is such a strong song that it's all you needed on a really lousy album of the same title. I consider BARK (the song) 2nd only to CRAZY TRAIN as Ozzy's absolute best rock song. It is an awesome tune. Jake had to write and play in an Osbourne imposed box for this album. It's a shame Ozzy never realized just how good JAKE was. Although it is interesting to note that Ozzy did comment on Jakes BADLANDS venture as "Really good... I wish he played like that when he was with me". When ZAKK left Ozzy briefly in th 90's Jake was the first guitarist Sharon and Ozzy called. Jake said no.
Sit down and play KILLER OF GIANTS... this is a simple but not easy song to play. Simple as in you don't have to think about too much other than timing your changes and getting those arpeggios exact. but difficult in execution, it takes some practice. But I must say, chicks get all gooey when you play this for them (personal experience
).
I would be hard pressed to think of a guitar song that Zakk wrote that was better than BARK AT THE MOON, KILLER OF GIANTS or SHOT IN THE DARK.
I have long considered Jake one of the most under-rated guitarists ever. His work with Badlands is excellent. He was instrumental in carrying Ozzy through a period of potential collapse and disater musically. There are some gorgeous guitar compositions on the Ultimate Sin, but I think Jake and Ozzy did all they really could together. A negative perspective on Jake is that he seemed to be pretty lazy... or laid back to the point where he just couldn't be bothered. But godamn he could rip that f*cking guitar to shreds.... smoking!!!!
In the 80's guitar Gods really started to emerge.... of course STEVE VAI and JOE SATRIANI lead the way... MALMSTEEN is in that group too, JAKE E LEE is close. However I think he still belongs in that slightly lower grouping of GEORGE LYNCH, MICHAEL SCHENKER and JOHN SYKES - amazing talents but not on the level of the G3 virtuosos, but I think Jake had the potential to be Satriani-like. He is certainly well above the mediocre talent of other 80's players like MICK MARS, WARREN DE MARTINI, SLASH and garbage like C.C DEVILLE.
ZAKK's first album with Ozzy was a very heavy handed, riff orientated metal album more akin to Black Sabbath than Ozzy's previous work. It had some decent songs with some catchy grooves, but over-all it isn't a great album.
Playing anything on that album requires finger strength more than virtousic talent. A little chicken picken' is nice too.
NO MORE TEARS was, what... 3.5 yrs after NO REST FOR THE WICKED? Thats a massive period of time to tour and grow as a musician. Give me 3.5 yrs and I am sure I could play Ozzy's setlist backwards if I wanted to. It's also apparent to me that everything Ozzy has done with Zakk has had more of a lean towards radio play than just all out metal.
Zakk fakes it live... not all the time, but he definately short-cuts many of Randy's more complicated passages for the use of heavy handed vibrato. It's part of his style, it works.... but it's not technically sound. Now thats not to say Zakk can't cut it... he's a huge talent, but simplifying isn't better... it just sounds different. Zakk plays the living hell outta those strings... he hurts the fretboard and can really shred, but as a guitar player I know the difference between a shredder who plays what sounds kewl and impressive and what sounds technically proficient.
I think if he really sat down and concentrated on execution rather than simple ripping through the notes he would be far better than he is... however, he wouldn't be ZAKK would he?
On one side of the metal guitar player stage you have BRODERICK, PETRUCCI, FRIEDMAN and GILBERT... these are pure shredders of supreme talent.
On the other side of the metal stage is DIMEBAG, HAMMETT, WYLDE and MUSTAINE... close, but no cigar.
Just thought I would ressurect an old thread.
RANDY is a difficult guitarist to copy. You have to have serious guitar chops to play much of his compositions in a manner doing them justice. You can't just fake your way through it. With that being said JAKE and ZAKK both have serious chops.
The most astounding thing to me about Randy is that the vast majority of his guitar ability, knowledge and chops came from musical lessons and teaching. He never copied anyone per-se, but simply absorbed aspects of other players approach into his own and made it uniquely his own. Sure there is some EDDIE VAN HALEN in his playing, but thats part of the scene at the time... he grew up with it. Randy even commented that you almost have to do something of that nature or no-one will take you seriously. Randy didn't own hundreds of albums of famous guitar players. I don't think he really had fantasies about wanting to play or be like anyone else. Hell, I have numerous interviews where he states his first influence was ELVIS PRESLEY and some of his guitar idols were Mick Ronson & Glen Buxton, both of whom he was exposed to from concerts, not from listening to albums and trying to copy them. Neither of them can be considerd guitar innovators, even if Randy copied their stuff I doubt we'd even notice..
As of 1982 there really only two guitarists who had the chops to stand up and prove they were supreme talents... EDDIE VAN HALEN and RANDY RHOADS... it would be another year before YNGWIE MALMSTEEN came along. ANGUS YOUNG certainly has to be considered in this group in terms of popularity but theres not a snowballs chance in hell he could play on that level.
Think of it this way... every major guitar player since Randy has an impressive list of influences to learn from and copy, most before him also had major guitar inflences, but Randy kind of went on his own and was raised in a somewhat more isolated musical environment. I recall the article that said a student once asked him to teach "Walk This Way"... this was 1976... Aerosmith were huge... Randy didn't know the song. He had to go get his brothers album to listen to it.
Thats crazy.
Plain and simple Randy was mostly learning on his own and just picking up ideas along the way.
I think he was kinda naive as a guitarist.
It's certainly part of his charm for me.
JAKE has the edge over ZAKK I believe based simply on the fact that he played and elaborated on Randys music very well.
Bark at the moon is such a strong song that it's all you needed on a really lousy album of the same title. I consider BARK (the song) 2nd only to CRAZY TRAIN as Ozzy's absolute best rock song. It is an awesome tune. Jake had to write and play in an Osbourne imposed box for this album. It's a shame Ozzy never realized just how good JAKE was. Although it is interesting to note that Ozzy did comment on Jakes BADLANDS venture as "Really good... I wish he played like that when he was with me". When ZAKK left Ozzy briefly in th 90's Jake was the first guitarist Sharon and Ozzy called. Jake said no.
Sit down and play KILLER OF GIANTS... this is a simple but not easy song to play. Simple as in you don't have to think about too much other than timing your changes and getting those arpeggios exact. but difficult in execution, it takes some practice. But I must say, chicks get all gooey when you play this for them (personal experience
).I would be hard pressed to think of a guitar song that Zakk wrote that was better than BARK AT THE MOON, KILLER OF GIANTS or SHOT IN THE DARK.
I have long considered Jake one of the most under-rated guitarists ever. His work with Badlands is excellent. He was instrumental in carrying Ozzy through a period of potential collapse and disater musically. There are some gorgeous guitar compositions on the Ultimate Sin, but I think Jake and Ozzy did all they really could together. A negative perspective on Jake is that he seemed to be pretty lazy... or laid back to the point where he just couldn't be bothered. But godamn he could rip that f*cking guitar to shreds.... smoking!!!!
In the 80's guitar Gods really started to emerge.... of course STEVE VAI and JOE SATRIANI lead the way... MALMSTEEN is in that group too, JAKE E LEE is close. However I think he still belongs in that slightly lower grouping of GEORGE LYNCH, MICHAEL SCHENKER and JOHN SYKES - amazing talents but not on the level of the G3 virtuosos, but I think Jake had the potential to be Satriani-like. He is certainly well above the mediocre talent of other 80's players like MICK MARS, WARREN DE MARTINI, SLASH and garbage like C.C DEVILLE.
ZAKK's first album with Ozzy was a very heavy handed, riff orientated metal album more akin to Black Sabbath than Ozzy's previous work. It had some decent songs with some catchy grooves, but over-all it isn't a great album.
Playing anything on that album requires finger strength more than virtousic talent. A little chicken picken' is nice too.
NO MORE TEARS was, what... 3.5 yrs after NO REST FOR THE WICKED? Thats a massive period of time to tour and grow as a musician. Give me 3.5 yrs and I am sure I could play Ozzy's setlist backwards if I wanted to. It's also apparent to me that everything Ozzy has done with Zakk has had more of a lean towards radio play than just all out metal.
Zakk fakes it live... not all the time, but he definately short-cuts many of Randy's more complicated passages for the use of heavy handed vibrato. It's part of his style, it works.... but it's not technically sound. Now thats not to say Zakk can't cut it... he's a huge talent, but simplifying isn't better... it just sounds different. Zakk plays the living hell outta those strings... he hurts the fretboard and can really shred, but as a guitar player I know the difference between a shredder who plays what sounds kewl and impressive and what sounds technically proficient.
I think if he really sat down and concentrated on execution rather than simple ripping through the notes he would be far better than he is... however, he wouldn't be ZAKK would he?
On one side of the metal guitar player stage you have BRODERICK, PETRUCCI, FRIEDMAN and GILBERT... these are pure shredders of supreme talent.
On the other side of the metal stage is DIMEBAG, HAMMETT, WYLDE and MUSTAINE... close, but no cigar.
Just thought I would ressurect an old thread.
Re: Rhoads, Lee and Wylde Analysis
This must be the most stupid thing I've read in a long timeThe_Scratch wrote:Zakk fakes it live... not all the time, but he definately short-cuts many of Randy's more complicated passages for the use of heavy handed vibrato. It's part of his style, it works.... but it's not technically sound.
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The_Scratch
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Re: Rhoads, Lee and Wylde Analysis
Touche.Stiltzkin wrote:This must be the most stupid thing I've read in a long timeThe_Scratch wrote:Zakk fakes it live... not all the time, but he definately short-cuts many of Randy's more complicated passages for the use of heavy handed vibrato. It's part of his style, it works.... but it's not technically sound.