So was Randy a genius, or a creative genius?

[zennman]

One of the better posts on these forums. Detailed some of the exact reasons why RR is so important to all of us.

[kamalayka]

This is an interesting thread. According to Wikipedia, "a genius is someone embodying exceptional intellectual ability, creativity, or originality, typically to a degree that is associated with the achievement of unprecedented insight."

If music is meant to provoke an emotional response, then it would seem that a musical genius is someone who can do this on the highest level possible.

Look at Beethoven. Often regarded as one of the first significant Romantic Era composers, he was able to create sublimely beautiful music with the most simple melodies, and when he'd perform it, audiences were be brought to tears.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... FSRs7iqAv8 (It takes genius to create something that is so simple and so so profound. Imagine how it must have been to hear Beethoven perform this for the first time!)

[The_Scratch]

This is an interesting thread. According to Wikipedia, "a genius is someone embodying exceptional intellectual ability, creativity, or originality, typically to a degree that is associated with the achievement of unprecedented insight."

If music is meant to provoke an emotional response, then it would seem that a musical genius is someone who can do this on the highest level possible.

Based on this perspective, which I apply as "Musical genius" (because I think it's important to clarify)... The Sex Pistols are musical genius?!?!?!

A few suggestions of musical genius would be; - and here lies the problem because music being such an expression of emotion makes virtually every musician a genius in some way.
These are just names that spring to mind without looking anything up. A problem arises when you start to think of one then realize theres this snowball affect of genius after genius.

So which of these names define the term "Genius" or simply display "exceptional GENETIC abilities"?
I'm going to place a little * next to whom I would consider a TRUE MUSICAL GENIUS.

* Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (which may be the coolest name ever LOL!!!)
* Johann Sebastian Bach
* Ludwig Van Beethoven
Richard Wagner
Sergia Rachmaninov
* Franz Lizst
* Frederic Chopin
Andres Segovia
Django Reinhardt
Les Paul
Paulo Freso (Trumpet)
Loiuse Armstrong (Trumpet)
Maynard Ferguson (Trumpet)
* Buddy Rich (Drums)
Chet Atkins
Miles Davis (Trumpet)
Glen Gould (Piano)
The Beatles (collective genius ???)
* Jimi Hendrix
John Coltrane
Jimmy Page
Carmin Appice (Drums)
John Paul Jones (Bass)
Roger Waters
Allan Holdsworth
Leo Kottke
Adrian Legg
Steve Reich (Minimilism)
Philip Glass (Composer)
Ennio Morricone (Composer)
Eddie Van Halen
* Jaco Pastorius (Bass)
Stanley Clarke
Uli Jon Roth
Neil Peart (Drums)
* Michael Hedges
* Preston Reed
Frank Zappa
Steve Vai
* Buckethead

Randy simply wasn't around long enough for us to guage his true level of ability. He did enough to make us realize that this was a possible "musical genius" and that makes it all the harder to accept his loss... after Buddy Holly, probably the greatest loss of music we have ever experiencd because we can never know what could have been.

[Vtrockgod]

I don't think necessarily a "genius" (because the label gets tossed around way too frequently), but truly innovative and unique. His meshing of classical and rock, and how he used classical music/ideas to make his music so much HEAVIER ("Diary", "Revelation", "Crowley", etc.), was what made RR special. And I love his passion combined with his virtuousity: I can remember many times cranking my walkman (yep, that long ago) and listening to the outro solo of "Tonight" and catching the last fading notes. His playing was emotional but not overwrought, blistering but not indulgent. I respect shredders on a technical level, but their music doesn't connect with me the way those two Ozzy records do. And great music stands the test of time: those albums are still selling and inspiring today. His influence has not faded, it is as strong as it ever was. When people talk abou the great guitar players, RR is one of the most commonly named.

The true tragedy (along with losing someone so young so senselessly) was his talent was still developing. He took a huge leap from QR to Ozzy and many think he still hadn't peaked. It's one of the big "what ifs?". As Max Norman pointed out, at least Hendrix got to hit his full potential. Rhoads was still moving upwards and he was working very hard to do so with his studies. Many times a band's best records are their earliest ones because they had years to develop their material while the second record onwards are being, in general, written in a much smaller timeframe. And RR certainly took some elements of QR and put it in Ozzy. But I think his pursuit of the classics and striving to improve would have pushed his music in new and bold directions.

[Paul Wolfe]

truly innovative and unique

Well said.

One thing that I think gets missed is that while Randy was infusing classical music into metal, he was also great at keeping things radio-friendly with his glam/pop sensibility. A lot of bands are heavier than the first two Ozzy records, but most of them are not ever going to make icon status because they only appeal to a select market.

I've met few people who don't like Crazy Train, because it's metal, it's awesome and it's just pop enogh to appeal to the mainstream.

[distortionplus]

I've often wondered what made RR so special. Lots of guys have been as technically proficient. Still even so they never truely moved me as deeply as RR's music did. He may have not been a true genius as the def goes but he was at playing just the right notes in the right place with just the right feeling to rise well above any guitarest I have ever heard.

[TAB]

I would say he had qualities to be a musical genius! I mean he ended up giving his private lesson teachers lessons on the road. Sure, he would have learned more at UCLA but learning is never ending. I think he had the ability to take musical information and run with it once shown and it did come easily to him since he was 6. I call that genius. He was not a musical prodigy but had genius in him far above others. If he didn't we wouldn't be here and watching Honda commercials and football games using Crazy Train today. Guess everyone has their own thought to what qualifies a genius, but there hasn't been as another Ozzy solo album as good as Diary or Blizzard, yea some other good ones, sure... If you want to go on the theory that Bob had a lot of credit , sure he worked great with Randy but Bark at the Moon was still not in the league of Blizzard and Diary. Randy was just finding himself on those 2 solo albums, and would have shown us without a doubt he was a genius if he was given the time on earth.

[RRFan4Ever]

I would say he had qualities to be a musical genius! I mean he ended up giving his private lesson teachers lessons on the road. Sure, he would have learned more at UCLA but learning is never ending. I think he had the ability to take musical information and run with it once shown and it did come easily to him since he was 6. I call that genius. He was not a musical prodigy but had genius in him far above others. If he didn't we wouldn't be here and watching Honda commercials and football games using Crazy Train today. Guess everyone has their own thought to what qualifies a genius, but there hasn't been as another Ozzy solo album as good as Diary or Blizzard, yea some other good ones, sure... If you want to go on the theory that Bob had a lot of credit , sure he worked great with Randy but Bark at the Moon was still not in the league of Blizzard and Diary. Randy was just finding himself on those 2 solo albums, and would have shown us without a doubt he was a genius if he was given the time on earth.

+1

Nothing touches what Randy laid down on Blizzard or Diary- even with Bob's input/guidance, it's still Randy Rhoads- and those albums are works of art that stand alone to this day.

I'd say there's a genius in that.

[Stiltzkin]

Nothing touches what Randy laid down on Blizzard or Diary- even with Bob's input/guidance, it's still Randy Rhoads- and those albums are works of art that stand alone to this day.

I'd say there's a genius in that.

Ahem, a certain german guitarist in a certain brittish band comes to mind...

[Paul Wolfe]

Ahem, a certain German guitarist in a certain British band comes to mind...

Schenker even had some of those mental mountdowns that so many genius' go through...

[TAB]

poofters

[Stiltzkin]

Well, Randy did have a bunch of riffs and solos from his QR days to reissue with Ozzy

[Paul Wolfe]

...those songs ended up becoming Blizzard and Diary.

But is 'ended up' the same as Frankie playing Crazy Train before Randy met Bob or is 'ended up,' hey we jammed on songs similar with some of those riffs?