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 Post subject: Bob and Lee - The 2 Lawsuits
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:15 am 
Madman

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Troy, what was the result of the lawsuit? I hear references to it all the time, but I don't think I've ever heard what exactly the verdict was. Or is it still ongoing?


Hi Paul, the detailed answer to your question is long and complicated but here's the short answer from my understanding.
There were 2 lawsuits at different times, both were about exactly the same issues. The first lawsuit against Jet/Don Arden for unpaid performance royalties from both albums and credits for performance and production on DOAM was heard in 1986 at the High Court in London. Towards the end of the hearing, Don Arden wanted to settle out of court. The lawyers acting for Bob and Lee advised them to settle as Don Arden was said to be in poor health and on the brink of bankruptcy. Bob and Lee took their lawyers' advice and settled for a sum that was less than what the agreed performance royalties would have been up to that point because they believed that future performance royalties would be paid at the agreed rate, and that the performance credits on DOAM would be corrected. That didn't happen. Over the years that followed, they tried several times to find out where their performance royalties were going but got nowhere.

Fast forward to the late '90s when Bob and Lee finally found out that Sharon had bought Ozzy's catalogue in '83 from her father Don Arden/Jet and had been pocketing their performance royalties ever since. At that point they sought legal advice and the lawsuit for unpaid performance royalties from both albums and credits for performance and production on DOAM got underway against the Osbournes in the US.
After gaining ground through every level of the complicated court system in the US, Bob and Lee were finally denied a hearing by the Supreme Court because of a technicality, the Statute of Limitations, too much time had elapsed. Bob and Lee were denied their day in court. Finito.
That, in my opinion, is a travesty of justice. Steven Machat said in his book that Bob and Lee were 'royally screwed' and I agree.

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 Post subject: Re: Bob and Lee - The 2 Lawsuits
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:19 pm 
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I read in an old interview with Bob saying that Mrs. Rhoads also sued the O's, do you know more about that?

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 Post subject: Re: Bob and Lee - The 2 Lawsuits
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:26 pm 
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Thanks Troy.

Could you estimate what $ amount these royalties come to? We hear about musicians getting royalty checks for their work, but I've never heard an inkling of what kind of money these royalties amount to.


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 Post subject: Re: Bob and Lee - The 2 Lawsuits
PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:04 pm 
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So Sharon bought Ozzy's catalogue in 1983...and Bob and Lee didn't find out until the late 90s? How is that even possible? Especially if Bob continued to work with Ozzy after '83 up until Ozzmosis. That's another strange point...why would you want to work with someone who was continually screwing you over and over and over again? I've read many different members' rationale on the whole scenario as to why Bob would stick around...but it still doesn't make sense to me and probably never will. If I were screwed as badly as Bob was, I would have pulled a Phil Soussan and thrown a shit fit making it impossible for my tunes to ever be printed again.

While I really do think that Sharon/Don/the record company DID treat Bob and Lee unfairly, I just don't know if I 100% buy their (Bob and Lee's, that is) versions of the truth. I imagine the truth lies somewhere between Bob/Lee's Story and Sharon/Don/the record company's story.


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 Post subject: Re: Bob and Lee - The 2 Lawsuits
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:34 am 
Madman

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Paul Wolfe wrote:
Thanks Troy.

Could you estimate what $ amount these royalties come to? We hear about musicians getting royalty checks for their work, but I've never heard an inkling of what kind of money these royalties amount to.


Well performance royalties are the band's share of the profits from each album sold, as far as Jet/Blizzard agreement was concerned Jet were to get 88% of the profits from sales and the band was to share the other 12%. It was agreed that Ozzy would get the biggest share of that 12% because he got the deal with Jet (he was still signed to them after being sacked by Sabbath). BOO and DOAM went platinum many times over so each member of the band should have received millions in performance royalties by now.

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 Post subject: Re: Bob and Lee - The 2 Lawsuits
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:40 am 
Madman

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The Flying Dutchman wrote:
I read in an old interview with Bob saying that Mrs. Rhoads also sued the O's, do you know more about that?


I'd heard that Mrs Rhoads was going to sue the Osbournes too but I don't know what happened, that was years ago. Maybe Sharon used her 'charm' and they reached an agreement.

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 Post subject: Re: Bob and Lee - The 2 Lawsuits
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:06 pm 
Madman

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NicDots wrote:
So Sharon bought Ozzy's catalogue in 1983...and Bob and Lee didn't find out until the late 90s? How is that even possible? Especially if Bob continued to work with Ozzy after '83 up until Ozzmosis. That's another strange point...why would you want to work with someone who was continually screwing you over and over and over again? I've read many different members' rationale on the whole scenario as to why Bob would stick around...but it still doesn't make sense to me and probably never will. If I were screwed as badly as Bob was, I would have pulled a Phil Soussan and thrown a shit fit making it impossible for my tunes to ever be printed again.

While I really do think that Sharon/Don/the record company DID treat Bob and Lee unfairly, I just don't know if I 100% buy their (Bob and Lee's, that is) versions of the truth. I imagine the truth lies somewhere between Bob/Lee's Story and Sharon/Don/the record company's story.


Well you obviously haven't read the one book that might give you a few answers.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing but if you don't know that you're being screwed over and you like working with Ozzy, why wouldn't you take the work? Bob and Ozzy were good friends for many years and that didn't change after he and Lee were sacked. In the years that followed their families socialised and their children played together. Things changed in the late 90s when he finally found out that the Osbournes had been receiving his and Lee's performance royalties. Most musicians focus on the work and leave finances to their accountants, unfortunately.

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 Post subject: Re: Bob and Lee - The 2 Lawsuits
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:03 pm 
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I still find it hard to believe that Bob would be dumped from the tour, tossed from the Blizzard band, not receive his RIAA awards, not get his checks, be denied songwriting credits on BATM along with Jake, and then see/hear about Phil being shafted on TUS and still not realize what's going on. Yes, hindsight is 20/20, but it seems others like Lee and Phil were able to understand what was going on and as a result, never work with the Osbournes again. Sure, maybe Ozzy and Bob got along, but how much abuse can go on before Bob realizes that he is being screwed?? Either he is the most naive person ever or he was more spaced out than Ozzy.


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 Post subject: Re: Bob and Lee - The 2 Lawsuits
PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:41 pm 
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NicDots wrote:
I still find it hard to believe that Bob would be dumped from the tour, tossed from the Blizzard band, not receive his RIAA awards, not get his checks, be denied songwriting credits on BATM along with Jake, and then see/hear about Phil being shafted on TUS and still not realize what's going on. Yes, hindsight is 20/20, but it seems others like Lee and Phil were able to understand what was going on and as a result, never work with the Osbournes again. Sure, maybe Ozzy and Bob got along, but how much abuse can go on before Bob realizes that he is being screwed?? Either he is the most naive person ever or he was more spaced out than Ozzy.


Well Nic in a nutshell.. what offers was Bob getting at the time ?...he came from the 'underground' and went to big status fame with Ozzy. If he was sitting waiting for 'promised' royalties' and still had the hope of being paid. He was still doing nothing with no offers coming. So in my eyes he went for the gigging opportunity with albums to be made and still got fucked over... Once biting twice shy and deserved to be rammed up the butt...Would you go back working with an employer who doesn't deliver the goods ???... IMHO Bob was left out high and dry waiting for a gig and a went for it...He didn't want to miss out on an opportunity to deliver more albums to Ozzy...its just a pity he got fucked off and never rewarded in full for every thing he did do....


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 Post subject: Re: Bob and Lee - The 2 Lawsuits
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:36 am 
Madman

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NicDots wrote:
I still find it hard to believe that Bob would be dumped from the tour, tossed from the Blizzard band, not receive his RIAA awards, not get his checks, be denied songwriting credits on BATM along with Jake, and then see/hear about Phil being shafted on TUS and still not realize what's going on. Yes, hindsight is 20/20, but it seems others like Lee and Phil were able to understand what was going on and as a result, never work with the Osbournes again. Sure, maybe Ozzy and Bob got along, but how much abuse can go on before Bob realizes that he is being screwed?? Either he is the most naive person ever or he was more spaced out than Ozzy.


Most of your assumptions are wrong. It might help to look at the timeline.
1.The band's agreement was with JET/Don Arden, hence Bob and Lee's lawsuit against them, and not the Osbournes, in 1986. Sharon and Ozzy had been helping Bob in that lawsuit. Why would Bob think that the Osbournes had been screwing him? Sharon had nothing to do with her father from 1984 until 2002 because of a family feud.
2. Bob received all of his awards for BOO and DOAM, there was only one award that he didn't receive because it went 'missing', someone was trying to sell that on eBay a couple of years back, as it happens a member of this forum let us know about that.
3. Both Bob and Jake accepted a buy-out for BATM. It was no surprise that they weren't credited for songwriting on that album.
4. Bob has only asked to be credited for his performance and co-production on DOAM, and to be paid the agreed performance royalties on BOO and DOAM. Until the late '90s both he and Lee believed that Don Arden/Jet were responsible for withholding both. As I've said many times, Bob was credited for songwriting and has always received his songwriting royalties for BOO & DOAM, probably because he refused to assign his publishing to Jet as requested.
5. Were Lee or Phil were ever asked to work for the Osbournes again? I don't think so.
6. The last time that Bob worked with Ozzy was at the end on '94. Phil Soussan sued the Osbournes for unpaid royalties after 2000, around the time that Bob and Lee were suing them. Why would Bob or anyone else know that Phil Soussan had been 'shafted' before then?

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 Post subject: Re: Bob and Lee - The 2 Lawsuits
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 8:20 am 
Madman

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Well Nic in a nutshell.. what offers was Bob getting at the time ?...he came from the 'underground' and went to big status fame with Ozzy. If he was sitting waiting for 'promised' royalties' and still had the hope of being paid. He was still doing nothing with no offers coming. So in my eyes he went for the gigging opportunity with albums to be made and still got fucked over... Once biting twice shy and deserved to be rammed up the butt...Would you go back working with an employer who doesn't deliver the goods ???... IMHO Bob was left out high and dry waiting for a gig and a went for it...He didn't want to miss out on an opportunity to deliver more albums to Ozzy...its just a pity he got fucked off and never rewarded in full for every thing he did do....


EH? Bob came from Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow before Blizzard was formed, I wouldn't call that band 'underground'. Waiting for a gig? Have you read the book that I sent you? Bob's had an amazing career!

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 Post subject: Re: Bob and Lee - The 2 Lawsuits
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:33 am 
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Troy for the record it was Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow not Bob Daisley's Rainbow. Who would of said look its Bob Daisley from Mungo Jerry and Widowmaker on the bass. The guys are on stage and get recognised over time for sure. My point being Bob was a guy who was slowly being recognised. Very much like Randy was being recognised playing with Ozzy...


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 Post subject: Re: Bob and Lee - The 2 Lawsuits
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:46 am 
Madman

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GUITARIDOL5682 wrote:
Troy for the record it was Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow not Bob Daisley's Rainbow. Who would of said look its Bob Daisley from Mungo Jerry and Widowmaker on the bass. The guys are on stage and get recognised over time for sure. My point being Bob was a guy who was slowly being recognised. Very much like Randy was being recognised playing with Ozzy...


Thanks for clarifying what you meant Shaun.

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 Post subject: Re: Bob and Lee - The 2 Lawsuits
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:35 pm 
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Sky wrote:
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Well Nic in a nutshell.. what offers was Bob getting at the time ?...he came from the 'underground' and went to big status fame with Ozzy. If he was sitting waiting for 'promised' royalties' and still had the hope of being paid. He was still doing nothing with no offers coming. So in my eyes he went for the gigging opportunity with albums to be made and still got fucked over... Once biting twice shy and deserved to be rammed up the butt...Would you go back working with an employer who doesn't deliver the goods ???... IMHO Bob was left out high and dry waiting for a gig and a went for it...He didn't want to miss out on an opportunity to deliver more albums to Ozzy...its just a pity he got fucked off and never rewarded in full for every thing he did do....


EH? Bob came from Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow before Blizzard was formed, I wouldn't call that band 'underground'. Waiting for a gig? Have you read the book that I sent you? Bob's had an amazing career!



Send me the book, I'll read it!


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 Post subject: Re: Bob and Lee - The 2 Lawsuits
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:34 am 
Madman

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EH? Bob came from Ritchie Blackmore's Rainbow before Blizzard was formed, I wouldn't call that band 'underground'. Waiting for a gig? Have you read the book that I sent you? Bob's had an amazing career!



Quote:
Send me the book, I'll read it!


That's funny :D

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