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 Post subject: Re: RANDY RHOADS - Polkadot Flying V - HD VIDEO - RareElectr
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:49 pm 
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Paul Wolfe wrote:
camdenlp wrote:
Paul, I understand what you mean. But where is the shit-talking in this thread? Looks pretty civil imho. If anything, I believe your comments are as abrasive as any sometimes. Sorry, I just don't see this thread as anything more than a difference in opinions.


I reread through this thread and indeed it's been civil, I apologize for sounding abrasive.

As for the "in today's dollars" concept, I get that, with inflation and all. However, I believe you could still build the guitar Randy had for that price. The price of wood isn't that steep, you just have to know what you're doing. There's a HUGE profit margin built into all of these things - the wood, the parts, etc. The actual cost for the manufacturer is not in the $1000s.



Yeah, you could build an object that looked like a guitar for the same price Randy paid in 1978, $750. It will even make a sound.

But you will not get quality.

It's like saying "I paid $5000 for a hyundai, it gets me from A to B, so I dont see why ANYONE would possibly want to spend $75,000 on a BMW... it's still ONLY a car, and they both have an exhaust...".

Plumbers (you have to connect one pipe with another, and make sure the shit runs downhill) get paid a higher hourly rate more than 99% of luthiers. There is a massive difference in their skill set, not to mention tools and machinery, yet no one would have a problem paying a plumber their fees.

Guitarists are spoiled. Price up a half decent cello or violin one day :)

I'm lucky my clients don't all share this view. Of the last ten guitars I sold, the cheapest was $6750. I can assure you, those guys see (and hear) the difference :)


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 Post subject: Re: RANDY RHOADS - Polkadot Flying V - HD VIDEO - RareElectr
PostPosted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:54 pm 
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rhoads56 wrote:


Yeah, you could build an object that looked like a guitar for the same price Randy paid in 1978, $750. It will even make a sound.

But you will not get quality.

It's like saying "I paid $5000 for a hyundai, it gets me from A to B, so I dont see why ANYONE would possibly want to spend $75,000 on a BMW... it's still ONLY a car, and they both have an exhaust...".

Plumbers (you have to connect one pipe with another, and make sure the shit runs downhill) get paid a higher hourly rate more than 99% of luthiers. There is a massive difference in their skill set, not to mention tools and machinery, yet no one would have a problem paying a plumber their fees.

Guitarists are spoiled. Price up a half decent cello or violin one day :)

I'm lucky my clients don't all share this view. Of the last ten guitars I sold, the cheapest was $6750. I can assure you, those guys see (and hear) the difference :)

Intersting. I was thinking about this the other day. I recall "what is something worth?" We it is worth what ever some one is willing to pay. I don't think people understand this concept. The other thing that is interesting is that it appears that some people think making a profit is bad. I really have no issues at all with gibson chargin 10 grand (MSRP) for a guitar and making 4000 dollars on a guitar that probably only cost 4 or 5 hundred dollars to produce. A lot went into that guitar before it ever even was built or thought of.


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 Post subject: Re: RANDY RHOADS - Polkadot Flying V - HD VIDEO - RareElectr
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:22 am 
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dannyahansen wrote:
rhoads56 wrote:


Yeah, you could build an object that looked like a guitar for the same price Randy paid in 1978, $750. It will even make a sound.

But you will not get quality.

It's like saying "I paid $5000 for a hyundai, it gets me from A to B, so I dont see why ANYONE would possibly want to spend $75,000 on a BMW... it's still ONLY a car, and they both have an exhaust...".

Plumbers (you have to connect one pipe with another, and make sure the shit runs downhill) get paid a higher hourly rate more than 99% of luthiers. There is a massive difference in their skill set, not to mention tools and machinery, yet no one would have a problem paying a plumber their fees.

Guitarists are spoiled. Price up a half decent cello or violin one day :)

I'm lucky my clients don't all share this view. Of the last ten guitars I sold, the cheapest was $6750. I can assure you, those guys see (and hear) the difference :)

Intersting. I was thinking about this the other day. I recall "what is something worth?" We it is worth what ever some one is willing to pay. I don't think people understand this concept. The other thing that is interesting is that it appears that some people think making a profit is bad. I really have no issues at all with gibson chargin 10 grand (MSRP) for a guitar and making 4000 dollars on a guitar that probably only cost 4 or 5 hundred dollars to produce. A lot went into that guitar before it ever even was built or thought of.


Thats exactly right.

Ive had a number of people suggest to me, that if I love my job so much, why dont I give guitars away for free? Well, I love my job, sure, but I also love the rewards it brings, after many years of hard work, long hours, financial risk, and constant vigilance. I can sell guitars for $1000, and cut corners, or sell them for $4500-11000, be anally retentive over quality control and timber selection, hand wind the pickups to perfectly suit those timbers, and build something people ultimately see as a family heirloom. Not to mention, the price point for my instruments excludes most people, which means I can spend the time and develop a working relationship with a client, rather than a "yeah we have 12 black ones in stock, we'll ship you a random one". Do I feel bad about the price? No, Im not really earning more than if I was doing my old career... renovating kitchens.


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 Post subject: Re: RANDY RHOADS - Polkadot Flying V - HD VIDEO - RareElectr
PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2014 4:14 pm 
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rhoads56, your guitars are absolutely GORGEOUS. The craftsmanship and attention to detail that you put into your work is extremely impressive and I don't think anyone here is questioning your pricing. However, I think the whole point of this thread is to recognize that not everyone has $4500-$11000 available to spend on a guitar. Besides, I think Paul is correct in that many people just enjoy "projects" ... and I am one of them.

Having said that, I just recently purchased a "Concorde" Chinese replica as a project guitar. I didn't expect the guitar to play well or sound good right out of the box. Hell, I wasn't even sure I would receive a guitar! :lol: I purchased the guitar because I felt the "look" was pretty accurate and it would make a fun project. Besides, unlike the PDV, there aren't too many builders out there who offer a Concorde replica.

When I received the guitar, it "looked" good, but it did have some issues.
There were some high frets, set up was horrid, and the hardware and electronics were pure crap. It was little more than a wall hanger, yet I still felt it had potential. I've since leveled and dressed the frets, replaced the nut and all of the hardware, electronics, and wiring. I gave it a good setup, adjusted the intonation, and I now have a decent looking replica that plays nice and sounds really good (IMO).
All for well under $1k. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: RANDY RHOADS - Polkadot Flying V - HD VIDEO - RareElectr
PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2014 1:07 am 
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Dino wrote:
...I think Paul is correct in that many people just enjoy "projects" ...


Project guitar are great fun!

I re-read this thread and I think that I can sum up my point of view on expensive guitars like this: People who have money see no problem paying a high price tag for something like a guitar. People without money (me) find it ridiculous to spend large amounts of money for something like a guitar.

Beautiful, expensive, hand-crafted instruments are great if that's what you are interested in. I have no issue with that. Some people like purebreds, too. I am not that kind of person. I like mutts (dogs AND guitars)


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 Post subject: Re: RANDY RHOADS - Polkadot Flying V - HD VIDEO - RareElectr
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:35 pm 
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Paul Wolfe wrote:
Dino wrote:
...I think Paul is correct in that many people just enjoy "projects" ...


Project guitar are great fun!



I get the project guitars. They are fun. And a lot for people do enjoy them. Right now the thing I am doing all though it is more my Dad than me is that we are building acoustic guitars from kits from Stu Mac. And they sound really really good. In fact I cannot believe how could the first guitar turned out. It sounds, in many ways, just as good as the 5000 dollar guitars out there.


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 Post subject: Re: RANDY RHOADS - Polkadot Flying V - HD VIDEO - RareElectr
PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2014 3:37 pm 
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Paul Wolfe wrote:
Dino wrote:
...I think Paul is correct in that many people just enjoy "projects" ...


Project guitar are great fun!

I re-read this thread and I think that I can sum up my point of view on expensive guitars like this: People who have money see no problem paying a high price tag for something like a guitar. People without money (me) find it ridiculous to spend large amounts of money for something like a guitar.

Beautiful, expensive, hand-crafted instruments are great if that's what you are interested in. I have no issue with that. Some people like purebreds, too. I am not that kind of person. I like mutts (dogs AND guitars)
Wait, you think I have lots of money? Rofl. I just like nice guitars and I sacrifice some things for them. But yeah I get what you are saying at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: RANDY RHOADS - Polkadot Flying V - HD VIDEO - RareElectr
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 5:28 am 
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dannyahansen wrote:
Wait, you think I have lots of money?


Of course you don't have lots of money, you've got nice guitars! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: RANDY RHOADS - Polkadot Flying V - HD VIDEO - RareElectr
PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2014 6:08 pm 
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Quote:
Yeah, you could build an object that looked like a guitar for the same price Randy paid in 1978, $750. It will even make a sound.


I think sometimes people forget that money bought more in the past, because of inflation. Randy's guitar would have cost around 3 Thousand dollars roughly today. Same with Eddie's Frankenstrat, yes it cost him $150 to build, but today it would have cost around $800-$900 to build because $150 in 1977 is the equivalent of $900ish today, same thing with Randy's guitars.


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 Post subject: Re: RANDY RHOADS - Polkadot Flying V - HD VIDEO - RareElectr
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:14 am 
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Here is the concord rareelectricguitars.com sells

http://youtu.be/oLpFXJLHjS

Here is it with all new hardware pickups ect.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_SSiQMpl_n0

It's amazing

The dude record all background music with this guitar


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 Post subject: Re: RANDY RHOADS - Polkadot Flying V - HD VIDEO - RareElectr
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:24 am 
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BowTie29 wrote:
Quote:
Yeah, you could build an object that looked like a guitar for the same price Randy paid in 1978, $750. It will even make a sound.


I think sometimes people forget that money bought more in the past, because of inflation. Randy's guitar would have cost around 3 Thousand dollars roughly today. Same with Eddie's Frankenstrat, yes it cost him $150 to build, but today it would have cost around $800-$900 to build because $150 in 1977 is the equivalent of $900ish today, same thing with Randy's guitars.



I disagree. If you know how to shop you can still build a decent guitar with decent parts for under $300, I've managed to do it. In the 70's it wasn't as easy to get parts as it is now, nor was it as easy to make them. The price issue is because manufacturers like to inflate prices not because the manufacturing of the parts costs more.


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 Post subject: Re: RANDY RHOADS - Polkadot Flying V - HD VIDEO - RareElectr
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 5:05 pm 
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Paul Wolfe wrote:
BowTie29 wrote:
Quote:
Yeah, you could build an object that looked like a guitar for the same price Randy paid in 1978, $750. It will even make a sound.


I think sometimes people forget that money bought more in the past, because of inflation. Randy's guitar would have cost around 3 Thousand dollars roughly today. Same with Eddie's Frankenstrat, yes it cost him $150 to build, but today it would have cost around $800-$900 to build because $150 in 1977 is the equivalent of $900ish today, same thing with Randy's guitars.



I disagree. If you know how to shop you can still build a decent guitar with decent parts for under $300, I've managed to do it. In the 70's it wasn't as easy to get parts as it is now, nor was it as easy to make them. The price issue is because manufacturers like to inflate prices not because the manufacturing of the parts costs more.


I agree, Im not saying you have to spend that much to make one, I was just saying that Randy's V would have cost the same as some of the expensive custom builds that are out there today. You can make a guitar for around $300 that is great for sure. Im looking at building my current, "dream" or perfect guitar (aside from an original 59 Les Paul) right now for around 800-900 and I could easily cut that down if I didnt go for some options that Im opting for such as a custom routed body, custom spec neck, Kahler,etc...


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 Post subject: Re: RANDY RHOADS - Polkadot Flying V - HD VIDEO - RareElectr
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:29 pm 
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See, that's what I loved about Ed... he made a legend based on piecing together a guitar from parts he had laying around. No custom this or that. He eventually rewound a pickup, but that was still with crap laying around.

I'm just not a "custom shop" kind of guy. My Vendetta plays great and feels great, but looks too pristine for me. I'm much more of a pawnshop guy. I recently built a strat style guitar for a friend of my son and the parts (everything but the pickup) came to $190 and then I put in a $100 EVH Frankenstein pickup. It sounds great, plays great and I told him that if he decides he wants a Floyd, he can save up for that and I'll put it in for him.

I've got a few Charvel necks laying around and LOADS of parts, so my son is thinking of taking shop next year in school and building a body so we can frankenstein a guitar together for him...


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 Post subject: Re: RANDY RHOADS - Polkadot Flying V - HD VIDEO - RareElectr
PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:08 pm 
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Ed didn't have anything custom because he customized it himself with the slanted pickup, one volume, etc... However, he did get custom guitars done for him after that one guitar, Bumblebee onwards were custom made. Today "custom" is different from then because of all the people doing it now. My "custom" neck is only costing $150, and my "custom" body is going to be "170", so "custom" is alot more affordable now if you look into it. However, "Partscasters" are great if you have parts lying around. I dont have parts so I have to order them and have the option of choosing, but if you have stuff at your house, some awesome guitars can be made for very little.


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 Post subject: Re: RANDY RHOADS - Polkadot Flying V - HD VIDEO - RareElectr
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2014 7:20 am 
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