????????????????GUITARS????????????????????

[randy will never die]

little off topic but what is the diffrence besides what courntry there made in

whats the diffrence between a gibson les paul and a epiphone

is paying $4000-$6000 worth it for a gibson les paul

i know epiphone is made in china but whats the diffrence which one is worth speeding money on

thanks

[Tito]

try both and let your ears decide on the price.in other words play a gibson lp through different amps and do the same with an epi lp through the same amps and let your ears figure out wich is better..

[Paul Wolfe]

The epi is closer to a reasonable price... nothing that says 'Gibson' is worth the price being asked for it, unless you get a Chinese knockoff....

Not saying Gibson's are bad guitars, just too outrageously priced. You're paying for the name more than the quality when you buy a Gibson.

Now as for quality of the instrument, try looking at the comparison videos on YouTube and then go to the store and play them yourself.

[Stiltzkin]

it's all wood anyway
who's to say that a chinese factory worker is less good
on his job than his american counterpart?

[Paul Wolfe]

it's all wood anyway
who's to say that a chinese factory worker is less good
on his job than his american counterpart?

I believe that the Chinese and Koreans can build a guitar just as good as an American. They don't use the same woods for their guitars - mahogany, alder, ash - but the craftsmanship is very good. 'Made in USA' doesn't mean what it used to.

[axeman_12656]

Fenders that are made in Mexico are just as good as the Made in U.S. A. also. I have a MIM Tele that is amazing!!

Also, i have played Epiphone since I was 13. Thats 19 years now. I think they are great guitars and a fare price.

But that being said... owning a Gibson LP Standard - HoneyBurst has always been my dream.

[Stiltzkin]

They don't use the same woods for their guitars - mahogany, alder, ash

I beg to differ, but most of them do. Hell, Epihone buys their mahogany from the same source as Gibson do,
backed up by Gibson to boot
'Made in America' is just a marketing ploy. Always has been, always will be. Aimed at every americans patriotic little heart

Fenders that are made in Mexico are just as good as the Made in U.S

well, their respective factories isn't that far apart

[Paul Wolfe]

I was referring to the knockoff Gibson guitars made in China... not all are made from the same woods as in the States, some are, some not...

"Made in America" used to mean quality, but now it is a way to keep jobs at home rather than ship them overseas where the employees work cheaper than the Americans

I've already decided that when I buy a "Gibson" Les Paul it'll be a knockoff, simply because I refuse to pay Gibson an arm and a leg for something that should be priced the way the knockoffs are.

[Stiltzkin]

"Made in America" used to mean quality, but now it is a way to keep jobs at home rather than ship them overseas where the employees work cheaper than the Americans .

It used to mean quality because there were no competition,
even if said quality was sub-par

[Whipper]

I don't have any experience with Epiphone, but my Japanese Jackson RR V feels and sounds like a toy compared with my USA Jackson RR V! There is a night and day difference between them. That said, I fail to see why an LP should cost $4-6K as was stated, the other model Gibsons LP's around $2K, as well as other high end guitars I can understand, but much above that becomes unjustifiable to me. Top components, hardware, woods and materials alone can easily run upwards of $1,000 retail value, mind you manufactures get much better pricing buying in bulk. Even with labor-saving equipment such as CNC machines, there is still a lot of labor involved. The reason you won't see an American made guitar sold at Asian made prices is because nobody there is willing to work for $1 an hour. Can't say I blame them.

[Paul Wolfe]

It used to mean quality because there were no competition,
even if said quality was sub-par

Can you give me an example of 'sub-par' quality from a time when there 'was no competition'?

[Paul Wolfe]

The reason you won't see an American made guitar sold at Asian made prices is because nobody there is willing to work for $1 an hour. Can't say I blame them.

Why does Fender manage to sell everything cheaper than Gibson, then? Gibson has been using the name forever as a reason to overcharge. Leo Fender wanted a product everyone could afford. Sure they pay the Asian worker less... so why should anyone buy anything from a company who exploits the Asian world? Gibson has their Epi factories there, so all of Gibson should be boycotted. Fender has Squire factories thee, so they should be boycotted...

As for your Japanese Jackson... is it the guitar itself (the parts made of wood) or the electric parts that make it sound like a toy?

[dannyahansen]

I admit that not every Gibson is good and some of the stuff they build should have never left the plant. However to even compare a Gibson to an Epiphone is some what futile. When working at GC I always asked " If I was to give you this Epiphone Zakk Wylde or my Gibson Zakk Wylde, which one would you take". Not one person ever said the Epiphone. Why is that? Simply because the Gibson was far superior to the Epiphone. There really is no comparison. Now, I realize that Gibsons are expensive. However try ebay, you can get good deals on guitars. I sold my Zakk Wylde a few years ago for 2350. I paid 2550 in 2003. THey are new now for 4699.99. Just be smart with your purchases. No reason to buy new. Well those new les paul classics at 1899.99 are a great deal and I would buy one. They look, sound and feel great.

There are several reasons why Gibson's cost more. It is not just the name. That is part of the price, I confess, but there are several reasons why Gibson's cost as much as they do. Gibson's production time on their gutiars require a lot more hours to build than most manufacturers. Keep in mind I am talking about the les pauls. Not the cheap melody makers and SGs. I can go into detail if you guys care.

[dannyahansen]

Why does Fender manage to sell everything cheaper than Gibson, then? Gibson has been using the name forever as a reason to overcharge. Leo Fender wanted a product everyone could afford. Sure they pay the Asian worker less... so why should anyone buy anything from a company who exploits the Asian world? Gibson has their Epi factories there, so all of Gibson should be boycotted. Fender has Squire factories thee, so they should be boycotted...

It looks like some eduction is required.

For starters every Gibson uses Nitro as the finish. It takes several hours and coats on the guitar. That alone causes prices to go up. Look at the Eric Johnson Strat or any of the time machine series. Those guitar cost almost as much as Gibsons les paul models. Which those models use Nitro as the finish. Other finish options only require one coat and dry in hours not days.

2nd Gibson use 1/4 sawn necks. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quartersawn
In speaking of wood, the term quartermortersawn (also: quarter sawn, quarter-sawn) is properly used for wood that is cut exactly radially (towards the heart of the log), or to put it differently, at right angles to the growth rings. Wood cut in this way is prized for certain applications, but it will tend to be more expensive as well. In cutting a log, quarter sawn boards can be produced in several ways, but if a log is cut for maximum yield it will produce only a few quarter sawn boards among the total; if a log is cut to produce only quarter sawn boards (termed quarter sawing) there will be considerable waste.
There are two main reasons to prefer quarter sawn boards:
greater stability of form and size (less warping; and shrinkage is less troublesome)
for decorative effect: this will only be the case for a limited number of woods. Quarter sawn oak shows a prominent ray fleck. Quarter sawn sapele is likely to produce a ribbon figure.

That alone increases the price. Gibson also, when using binding on the fret board(which fender rarely uses at all) will put binding over the frets. They are the only company that does this currently on all models that have binding on the fret board. (You can get this option on Jackson custom shop guitar for 250 dollar up charge.) That require a lot more time because the binding must be scraped by hand. Gibson told me that they put in at least 2 weeks of build time on each guitar. Fender's time is less than a week.

Another reason for cost is the flame maple tops that gibson uses on a lot of it's models. Fender recently put out gutiars that have a measly 1/8th inch top and their guitars sell for over 2000 dollars. Gibson uses 1/4 inch tops. So there are substantial reasons for the difference in cost.

Also Fender bolts all of their necks on. Gibson always uses a set neck that requires much more time and skill to assemble.

One more thing that Fenders really are not all that cheap compared to Gibson USA stock.

Once you get to the custom shop from both companies price go way up. Seen Les Pauls sell for 25k seen strats sell for 25k.

I think the real argument is "which company offers a better value". I vote for Gibson over Fender. But Fender has it's place in the world of guitars and music and that alone means that they (fender) cannot be ignored.

[Whipper]

Why does Fender manage to sell everything cheaper than Gibson, then?

Really? I see plenty of American made Strats selling around $1,600 while Gibson SGs, Explorers and V's are often $1,200 or less even. If you're trying to compare the Strat to an LP that's hardly fair, just because they're both solid body electric guitars. There's quite a different between bolting a neck onto a slab of alder to the LP's set neck construction with a carved top on Honduran mahogany, among other things.

so why should anyone buy anything from a company who exploits the Asian world? Gibson has their Epi factories there, so all of Gibson should be boycotted. Fender has Squire factories thee, so they should be boycotted...

So now you're on a rant to boycott companies that have Asian made guitar lines???

As for your Japanese Jackson... is it the guitar itself (the parts made of wood) or the electric parts that make it sound like a toy?

How the hell would I know, unless maybe I strip them down and analyze the wood and try swapping all high end components onto the cheap model, etc., etc.! I would imagine it's a culmination of everything. I hear a lot more people claim they find a Gibson LP to be much better than an Epiphone, than people claiming there's no difference or the opposite.